OK, forst of all, for those who do not know, I live and work in Alabama. With the exception of learning Spanish (which was more a hobby than a necessity, and has proven to come in real handy!), I have never given much thought to the rites and customs of other cultures, with the exception of what we were taught in school, until they came into play. It was literally that far between times that I HAD to think about it, and was usually a minor thing, like making sure our Jewish or Muslim patients did not receive pork on their diet.
They didn't teach me this in school.
I have had a number of patients of (and work with several docs of) Middle Eastern descent lately, and I have 2 questions.....I would ask, because shy is about the last thing I am, but I really don't want to look like an idiot or accidentally insult somebody.
1) What is the word for the head scarf that the women usually wear? I work with another NP who wears one, but I'd be mortified to ask her.
2) Is it considered rude of me, as a Christian and as a female, to assess the male patients bare-headed? I see their wives and female relations wearing the whatever-it-is-that-I-don't-know-yet, and am curious. Nurses don't even wear hats here, NPs wear whatever, so I just want some input.
I have no problem with the above, if it is considered good manners. To me, it's no different than speaking Spanish to a Hispanic patient. If it helps me make a positive impression, and makes my patient more comfortable, so much the better for me. My family, on the other hand, thinks I'm a hypocrite, because I am firmly in the camp of "No man's going to tell me what to do". You know, that is how I was raised. This is America. I am a very strong independent woman and danged if I'll kowtow to someone just because he happens to be male. I just won't do it. I am ranked right up there with Obama bowing to whoever it was he bowed to. Do I think it meant anything? I don't know. It didn't strike me as any different than curtsying to the Queen of England. Do I curtsy here? No. There, yes, because I'd be in their country and would want to make a good impression. Same with, I think, Cambodia, where it's considered rude to point the sole of your foot towards someone (the reason being that they consider that the dirtiest part of the body). I would endeavor not to insult anyone.
I don't see this as any different, but I would like some advice. Is it considered bad form to assess someone of that culture bare-headed, while his female relations are covered, or would it be considered MORE rude yet to cover my head, even though I am not of the same culture or religion?
No one has said anything to me. All the patients and docs have been more than nice, and the NP I mentioned before is the only one that wears the scarf, so obviously the docs do not take issue with NOT wearing one. I guess I'm being silly, but this is nagging at me, so if you can shed some light on the subject, this dim bulb would be appreciative.
Specializes in ICU, School Nurse, Med/Surg, Psych.
AngleFire you may want to discuss your 'christian' values with a trusted minister. Wearing symbols of another religion without faith in that religion is like wearing a cross because it looks pretty.
This was a good question, IMHO. There are many articles in the various nursing journals about different cultures. Long before these types of questions were routinely asked at admission, I started to ask ALL of my patients "Is there anything I should be aware of in your religion or culture that may affect your care?" There are times when some things may not be able to accommodated, and the patient needs to understand this.
How can one Muslim say - all my care must be given by men, and yet an aide says he cannot care for men? PICK ONE !!! Can't have it both ways!
I cannot imagine any religion that does not make exception to its own code for health reasons. When necessary for health, Jews can eat on Yom Kippor, the holiest day of the year, when everyone over 13 fasts. And in the days of Beef and Pork insulin, some Jews took the Pork insulin. Etc.
Accommodate when possible, but do not allow an entire hospital to be bullied.
One other brief comment - if you were attending a religious service in a mosque, you might be expected to dress accordingly, out of respect. The same way ALL men are expected to wear a head covering in a conservative or orthodox temple.
1) What is the word for the head scarf that the women usually wear? I work with another NP who wears one, but I'd be mortified to ask her.
I'd start asking questions. Other cultures are glad to share. I had some Muslim friends in Bangladesh and I asked questions all the time...and sometimes teased them just like I do everyone else! I know for example, important things, like where young people sneak off to have sex, where they get alcohol, and that sometimes under that Hijab and Abaya, you'll find Victoria Secrets! People everywhere are just people.
Specializes in med-surg, psych, ER, school nurse-CRNP.
AngleFire you may want to discuss your 'christian' values with a trusted minister. Wearing symbols of another religion without faith in that religion is like wearing a cross because it looks pretty.
Which is why I asked before I went blindly in. I am very secure in my values, thank you, and did not ask to be judged. I asked for advice, as I have seen Muslim-based threads here, figured that at least SOME Muslim nurses visit the site, and wanted to get the best possible advice from someone who knew more than I did about the subject.
I was not looking at the hijab/scarf as a symbol of a religion per se, just as a mark of respect for my patient.
So, if being a "Christian", as you put it means ignoring my curiosity or my desire to show compassion and respect for others, I'll pass. To me, a Christian treats people the way they want to be treated, and I would appreciate someone caring enough to make an effort to show that they were aware of my beliefs, even if they did not practice them. If I as a Christian ask for clergy to visit me, I don't want someone to lay hands on me and call it good, because those are their beliefs and they think that is all there is.
Taking steps to better understand and accommodate other religious beliefs is very Christian, I think. And I do not think that a desire to better serve my patients shows that my values need counsel.
However, you have your opinion, and I did ask for them. I don't have to agree with all of them, but I do thank you for taking the time to respond.
A male aide I know refuses to give physical care to other men because he says it violates Islam.
I think that's a crock o' you know what! I'm pretty sure it would not be frowned upon for a male aid to attend a Muslim man. I mean, who else is he going to care for? Not a woman, that's for sure! Sounds suspiciously like laziness to me.
hello this is actually my 1st time posting.im am not a nurse yet but i am going to school to be an L.P.N. i am muslim.yes the headscarf is called a hijab.no i dont see why you should wear one because you are not muslim and you do not wear one on normal days.muslims are quite used to dealing with women who dont wear hijab.in most muslim countries alot of muslim women do not wear it.personally i dont wear it either,but that is my personal choice.
it really depends on the person that you are caring for also.muslims like anyone else are people,there are really religious muslims and there are more laid back muslims.some muslims will not let someone of the opposite sex take care of them and some dont mind.islamically as muslims we are supposed to have someone of the same sex take care of us,but we can have them if the someone of the same sex isnt available.put it this way,my doctor is male.but some muslims dont feel that way.once again it all just depends on the person.just make them feel comfortable with respecting their religion,thats all you have to do.most muslims are happy that you ask about their religion so that they can tell you.dont be afraid to ask them if you want to know.
once again just respect their religion,dont try to conform to it unless that is what you believe.hope this helps some.
I have cared for Muslim pts rather intimately over the last several years, and they have always been gracious and kind with my cultural ignorance!
We get many Muslim students and their families--they are young, often away from home and their support system for the first time (imagine having your first baby in a foreign country, with no family and few friends to help!), and they are usually extremely happy to answer any questions.
In regards to the touching thing:
I have had some Muslim men only allow me to touch them while providing physical care, but not casually. So touching them to palpate pulses was okay, but shaking hands or placing my hand on their arm was not. Others did not have any problems with me touching them casually, and would even initiate such contact.
If our interaction is going to be brief--say, a fellow nurse wants me to give a second opinion about breath sounds--I simply introduce myself, and I always explain what I'm going to do and then ask permission to touch. "I'm Bluegrass, I'm the charge nurse here tonight, and your nurse wanted a second opinion on your lung sounds. May I listen to your lungs?"
If I'm going to be providing care for an entire shift, I typically say something like "I see on your patient profile that you are Muslim. I am not Muslim, and am unfamiliar with some of the cultural practices. Please let me know if there are any special considerations I should know about. For example, do you mind having a woman provide your care?" I just proceed slowly, explaining and asking permission to touch, and take my cues from them. Some men initiate a handshake, or lay their hand over mine while speaking, and others seem to maintain a certain physical distance.
Same with the women. If they seem to defer to their husband, I address more of my conversation to the husband than I may normally. I don't exclude the patient, but rather I include the husband more, if that makes sense. I also ask if they have any preference as to whether or not men can provide care. Some do not, and some do. Some don't have any problem with men providing care, but want to be warned ahead of time, so they can be clothed appropriately, or so that their husband/brother/father can be in the room. In these events, I place a sign on the door simply stating "All male staff and volunteers, please check at nurse's station prior to entry". If a male staff wants to enter, for example, if the phlebotomist is male, I ask him to wait outside the door. I enter, announce him, ask if she's ready for him, and then I usually try to stay in the room while he draws her blood.
Honestly, I don't do much different for my Muslim patients. I try to explain myself and ask permission of *all* my pts before I touch them. I think the biggest thing is for all of my foreign pts, whether they are Muslim or not, I try to explain things very thoroughly. I think it must be terribly stressful to be ill and hospitalized in a foreign country, where you are unfamiliar with the health care system. My husband was hospitalized in Germany while we were visiting, and I did not expect the system and health care culture to be very different--and boy, was it ever. I try to keep that in mind when dealing with my foreign patients.
I think those are really good questions. I work with muslim patients in my job, and one of my fellow nurses is Somali. Our child life specialist did a research project on muslim religion and culture. One of the things I remember was that in many Arab countries dogs aren't kept as pets, so they were less enthusiastic about pet therapy.
My Somali colleague told me that the Koran teaches that if you are starving you eat pork... in other words questions of health take precedence over cultural taboos.
In my experience there are many different practices within Islam, just as there are within Christianity and Judaism. So I think you are right to ask patients.
I have had some families ask for a private room because they need to pray several times a day. I had one family that was uncomfortable because the roommate's father was sleeping in the room with him. He said his wife couldn't be in the room alone with another man present. I pointed out that I am a male, but he said I was ok because I was his son's nurse. I have had other rooms where the mother needs to wear a burka (full face / body covering) if any males besides her husband are in the room.
I am not even slightly religious. I don't care for religious fanatics, whatever their faith. My experience with Islamic families has been overwhelmingly positive. I had one father ask me to sit for tea with him after I cared for his son for a few days. He smiled and told me that god meant for me to be a nurse. I was really touched. I think one of the really good things about nursing is being able to learn about and appreciate the cultures of our patients and colleagues. And nobody should question your faith because you are trying to respect someone else's.
Specializes in ICU, School Nurse, Med/Surg, Psych.
The 'cultural awareness' for muslems is AMAZING. Do you ever think of covering up your tatoos for christians? [if you don't think this is offensive check out Lev. 19] No wonder Obama bowing and appologizing to doesn't offend more Americans.
Island, why are you being such a grump? How is it that trying to be polite and sensitive to people in general is seen as a negative character attribute?
I'd start asking questions. Other cultures are glad to share. I had some Muslim friends in Bangladesh and I asked questions all the time...and sometimes teased them just like I do everyone else! I know for example, important things, like where young people sneak off to have sex, where they get alcohol, and that sometimes under that Hijab and Abaya, you'll find Victoria Secrets! People everywhere are just people.
Ah, yes, the old VS under the hijab and abaya.
So, uh, how did your Muslim friends feel about your teasing them?
Sounds suspiciously like laziness to me.
island40
328 Posts
AngleFire you may want to discuss your 'christian' values with a trusted minister. Wearing symbols of another religion without faith in that religion is like wearing a cross because it looks pretty.