i don't know if anyone here works in theatres , i looked on teh OR nursing site but they were all from the USA and Canada and i don't know if they have ODP's (Operating room practiciioners). last week i was in the anaesthetic room and was an ODP administering propofol to a patient. the anaesthetist was there, but i found it unsettling as the ODP's are not qualified nurses and do not have the same training as us. our PIN numbers gives us the license to administer drugs but i dont know if ODP's are the same.
i dont know whether i should query this at work but other nurses have been complaining that ODPs carry the drug keys when they are unlisenced to administer drugs, but i dont want this girl to get into trouble. she has only been an ODP for a year.
i was just wondering if anyone can advise me as it isn't sitting right if you know what i mean.
I find the contents of this thread deeply disturbing. I know we have hijacked it a little from the ODP issue but we all need to bear in mind that as qualified nurses we are responsible and accountable for our patients. It is not sufficient to say please dont do that again it has to be followed up with an incident form and reporting to the senior nurse. I know it is difficult if you are junior or not in an area you usually work in but you are in charge of your patients care not the HCSW.
If I felt the incident was serious enough I would send the person in question off duty as if they are comprimising my patients safety I would rather work short than have to worry about what may happen when I turn my back.
I investigate disclipinary matters as part of my job and it is the qualified staff that get pulled up and critisised for inadequate supervision or failing to report a problem.
Non qualified staff who alter, or give IV medication even if it is a saline flush are breaking the law. There are no 2 ways about it, it is illegal and must not be tolerated. As qualified nurses you should be supervising these staff and therefore are ultimately accountable for that patients care. Remember the code of conduct states by "act or ommission" so if you fail to report and act your are equally as accountable.
I have to agree with Mabel as Registered Nurses we are accountable and we have work within the Code/scope of professional practice. We have a responsibility to our pts and other staff to act upon practice which is less than desirable. There are ways and means of dealing with situations, and if the nurse is junior there will always be a senior member of staff that can be approached to discuss concerns with. That person may not always be on duty but there is a chain of command and it is up to the professional to investigate who that would be on their unit.
I agree with Madwife and Mabel - our code of conduct and chain of command have served us well - and they will continue to do so in the future as long as we don't allow our role to be eroded and subsumed into some mini doctor / admin role and the whole meaning of nursing disappears.
Specializes in Spinal Cord injuries, Emergency+EMS.
i don't know if anyone here works in theatres , i looked on teh OR nursing site but they were all from the USA and Canada and i don't know if they have ODP's (Operating room practiciioners). last week i was in the anaesthetic room and was an ODP administering propofol to a patient. the anaesthetist was there, but i found it unsettling as the ODP's are not qualified nurses and do not have the same training as us. our PIN numbers gives us the license to administer drugs but i dont know if ODP's are the same.
i dont know whether i should query this at work but other nurses have been complaining that ODPs carry the drug keys when they are unlisenced to administer drugs, but i dont want this girl to get into trouble. she has only been an ODP for a year.
i was just wondering if anyone can advise me as it isn't sitting right if you know what i mean.
debbie
well given that ODPs are registered health professionals ( registered with the HPC) and their training / education does include drug adminstration / medicines management ...
however it seems theat old attitudes remain entrenched in some theatre departments as to what are 'nurse ' jobs and what are ' technician jobs' ( depsite the fact that ODPs haven't been 'theatre thechnicians for 20 - 30 years - having been C+G qualified ODAs, then NVQ ODPs and now HPC registered ODPs with dipHE entry for new registrants
Specializes in Spinal Cord injuries, Emergency+EMS.
Dear Chapmajc,
Initially the P2000 nurses spent 18months in college prior to placements. So this didnt work and they introduced diploma nurses, P2000 a thing of the past. On and on I can go on and on
sorry, you are wrong there, the CFP in P2k did include clinical placements, IIRC 1/3 of the CFP was placement and the remaining 2/3rds of placements were brnach specific and in the second half o the programme
sorry, you are wrong there, the CFP in P2k did include clinical placements, IIRC 1/3 of the CFP was placement and the remaining 2/3rds of placements were brnach specific and in the second half o the programme
is that not the new or Making a Differnce (MAD) programe which is the current one.
ODPs are registerd professionals therefore if they have completed the required comptency for IV administration THEN THEY MAY DO SO (just as you should have!!).
Whilst the anaesthetist is maintaining the airway (possibly using both hands), then an anssistant may be required to administer further boluses of anaesthetic drugs (to prevent the patient regaining consciousness - not the best outcome for the patient!!!!)
Your uninformed, ignorant and blinkered attitude is exactly the kind of attitude exhibited by some members of the UK medical professions in the initial introduction of extended nursing roles (which the government have promoted and supported).
Please realise
Most, if not all heathcare professionals, are dedicated towards the best interests of the patient i.e nurses are not the only care providers, doctors and other health care professionals (who have spent a considerable part of their life gaining qualifications) care and are skilled to!.
In my experience the ODPs I have worked with are competent professional skilled REGISTERED healthcare providers who function in a multiple of roles within operating theatres, and perform exactly the same functions as operating theatre nurses, who are in the UK in the main only able to perform within very limited scopes of practice in operating theatres
To the overseas Nurse ODPs are NOT HCAs.
Shoul you wish to replace ODPs in operating theatres with Nurses, then you will be in for a very long and costly project with the NHS workforce planning Directorate.
Why on earth cant people be informed and respect each other so we can collaboratively achieve optimal patient care
Years ago when I worked on a general ward we had very helpful HCAs. I could put all the details in but it would probably identify where I work. Lets just say that an HCA reset an infusion pump to 125mls an hour but it was actually an epidural not an iv infusion. Pt very unwell, required transfer to critical care. Neither the HCA nor the RN works at this trust anymore.
mabel u.k
55 Posts
I find the contents of this thread deeply disturbing. I know we have hijacked it a little from the ODP issue but we all need to bear in mind that as qualified nurses we are responsible and accountable for our patients. It is not sufficient to say please dont do that again it has to be followed up with an incident form and reporting to the senior nurse. I know it is difficult if you are junior or not in an area you usually work in but you are in charge of your patients care not the HCSW.
If I felt the incident was serious enough I would send the person in question off duty as if they are comprimising my patients safety I would rather work short than have to worry about what may happen when I turn my back.
I investigate disclipinary matters as part of my job and it is the qualified staff that get pulled up and critisised for inadequate supervision or failing to report a problem.
Non qualified staff who alter, or give IV medication even if it is a saline flush are breaking the law. There are no 2 ways about it, it is illegal and must not be tolerated. As qualified nurses you should be supervising these staff and therefore are ultimately accountable for that patients care. Remember the code of conduct states by "act or ommission" so if you fail to report and act your are equally as accountable.
Sorry there goes my soap box again
:uhoh3: 