i don't know if anyone here works in theatres , i looked on teh OR nursing site but they were all from the USA and Canada and i don't know if they have ODP's (Operating room practiciioners). last week i was in the anaesthetic room and was an ODP administering propofol to a patient. the anaesthetist was there, but i found it unsettling as the ODP's are not qualified nurses and do not have the same training as us. our PIN numbers gives us the license to administer drugs but i dont know if ODP's are the same.
i dont know whether i should query this at work but other nurses have been complaining that ODPs carry the drug keys when they are unlisenced to administer drugs, but i dont want this girl to get into trouble. she has only been an ODP for a year.
i was just wondering if anyone can advise me as it isn't sitting right if you know what i mean.
Years ago when I worked on a general ward we had very helpful HCAs. I could put all the details in but it would probably identify where I work. Lets just say that an HCA reset an infusion pump to 125mls an hour but it was actually an epidural not an iv infusion. Pt very unwell, required transfer to critical care. Neither the HCA nor the RN works at this trust anymore.
Wow. I'm a HCA. I've seen some scary things done by HCAs. The good ones are bad. The bad ones are scary. I hope I am in the first group.
Specializes in ICU,ANTICOAG,ACUTE STROKE,EDU,RESEARCH.
i don't know if anyone here works in theatres , i looked on teh OR nursing site but they were all from the USA and Canada and i don't know if they have ODP's (Operating room practiciioners). last week i was in the anaesthetic room and was an ODP administering propofol to a patient. the anaesthetist was there, but i found it unsettling as the ODP's are not qualified nurses and do not have the same training as us. our PIN numbers gives us the license to administer drugs but i dont know if ODP's are the same.
i dont know whether i should query this at work but other nurses have been complaining that ODPs carry the drug keys when they are unlisenced to administer drugs, but i dont want this girl to get into trouble. she has only been an ODP for a year.
i was just wondering if anyone can advise me as it isn't sitting right if you know what i mean.
debbie
Even a RN wouldn't be allowed to give an IV push of propofol to a patient as this would be classed as administering an anaesthetic I think. Doesn't sound like it was an emergency situation where I guess, under the supervision of an anaesthetist, for example for a rapid sequence induction it might be permissable.Even then the ODP/RN would most likely be expected to perform cricoid pressure rather than be giving drugs.
As far as I am aware it's permissable for an RN to give a bolus of propofol via a syringe driver when the patient is already sedated eg in ICU and then the bolus amount would be limited to maybe 5 mls.
Specializes in ICU,ANTICOAG,ACUTE STROKE,EDU,RESEARCH.
Madwife I couldnt agree more but unfortunately the changes to the NHS are made by politicians and managers so far removed from the shop floor they have no idea what impact their changes have on patient care. THe NHS has become more about saving money and less about patient care which brings me back to a point I made earlier, if we keep delegating tasks to unqualified staff we make ourselves and expensive commodity. As nurses we should stand our ground and say no. I remember a time when as a qualified nurse I would wash, dress, feed, hydrate our patients, take and record observations give the medicaitons and have time during handover to complete our documentations. Now it seems that we are swampped with paperwork, haveing different forms to complete to request simple services in the community which takes us further from patient care. I teach recognitioin of a sick patient to HCAs and reguarly argue with them about taking manual pulses, they do not have the training or understanding of the importance of these procedures and yet we delegate the wellbeing of our patients to them. And we are being encouraged to delegate further. Thats not to say there are not some very good HCAs out there but I attend many patients that have deteriorated because simple observations have not been performed.
As nurses we need to defend our profession, stand up and say no to any further delegations and degradation of our role.
OK I am going to get off my soap box now. :uhoh3:
And much of this is partly due to the fact that with the EU working directive Drs hours had to be cut and many traditional medical roles are now carried out by nurses. Unfortunately they didn't add to the nursing work force so more traditional trained nurse jobs are delegated to HCAs.
To me carrying out basic nursing care such as bathing, turning etc etc are the times when you get to assess things like oedema, skin condition,hydration etc etc etc.
:uhoh3:
JDZ344
837 Posts
Wow. I'm a HCA. I've seen some scary things done by HCAs. The good ones are bad. The bad ones are scary. I hope I am in the first group.