ODP's and administering drugs

Published

i don't know if anyone here works in theatres , i looked on teh OR nursing site but they were all from the USA and Canada and i don't know if they have ODP's (Operating room practiciioners). last week i was in the anaesthetic room and was an ODP administering propofol to a patient. the anaesthetist was there, but i found it unsettling as the ODP's are not qualified nurses and do not have the same training as us. our PIN numbers gives us the license to administer drugs but i dont know if ODP's are the same.

i dont know whether i should query this at work but other nurses have been complaining that ODPs carry the drug keys when they are unlisenced to administer drugs, but i dont want this girl to get into trouble. she has only been an ODP for a year.

i was just wondering if anyone can advise me as it isn't sitting right if you know what i mean.

debbie :idea:

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in RN, BSN, CHDN.

My friend was an trainee ODP and as she was being trained in drug administration as part of her course. So I presume they are allowed to admin drugs and have training to do so. So I think if you investigate you will find that there will be a protocol which allows ODP's to admin drugs. I imagine it will vary from trust to trust. The trust in which she worked was Southampton.

Up Vote Up Vote ×

phew that is a relief, i am sure it was all above board and everything but you just never know.

thanks for that

debbie :mad:

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in renal,peritoneal dialysis, medicine.
My friend was an trainee ODP and as she was being trained in drug administration as part of her course. So I presume they are allowed to admin drugs and have training to do so. So I think if you investigate you will find that there will be a protocol which allows ODP's to admin drugs. I imagine it will vary from trust to trust. The trust in which she worked was Southampton.

we have a similar situation at my trust, they were in the process of developing a new training course which mean odp's were qualified along the same lines as an rgn

i dont have a problem with expansion of roles, ie HCAs giving iv fluids, venepuncture etc but i do worry about people not understanding the consequences of an act at work, for example doing a procedure blindly without enough knowledge, i watched something along these lines the other night at work and sometimes it worries me, i also had a conversation with a HCA on my ward a little while ago who said to me 'the only difference between you and me is you do drugs!' i think i will do my nurse training

i replied if thats what you think you will never be a nurse!!

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Medical and general practice now LTC.
i also had a conversation with a HCA on my ward a little while ago who said to me 'the only difference between you and me is you do drugs!' i think i will do my nurse training

i replied if thats what you think you will never be a nurse!!

Frightening that she thinks the only difference is drugs :eek: what about all the years of training done at school of nursing or now university.

I have no problem with extended role to who ever as long as there are protocols to protect everyone especially the patient. I just hope the trusts don't see it as a money saving exercise to get rid of RN's

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in RN, BSN, CHDN.
we have a similar situation at my trust, they were in the process of developing a new training course which mean odp's were qualified along the same lines as an rgn

i dont have a problem with expansion of roles, ie HCAs giving iv fluids, venepuncture etc but i do worry about people not understanding the consequences of an act at work, for example doing a procedure blindly without enough knowledge, i watched something along these lines the other night at work and sometimes it worries me, i also had a conversation with a HCA on my ward a little while ago who said to me 'the only difference between you and me is you do drugs!' i think i will do my nurse training

i replied if thats what you think you will never be a nurse!!

I had this said to me frequently in my last job-but then they say I'm not talking about you, as you have management responsibilities. It just amazed me at times

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in renal,peritoneal dialysis, medicine.
I had this said to me frequently in my last job-but then they say I'm not talking about you, as you have management responsibilities. It just amazed me at times

well comments like the above just prove to me that she didnt have a clue about what a nurse really is!!!

Its probably a good job you went to the usa when you did kay, with you being management, as managers over here in the last six months have had a shock as they seem to be loosing jobs in middle management ie G and H grades all over the place to save money

i think 300 jobs are going to have to go at my trust, Staffordshire (down the road a bit) need to loose 1000, god knows what is going to happen, i never thought i would see nursing staff made redundant, especially whan we are so short staffed as it is!

it makes me laugh though there is a sign outside my hospital recruiting student nurses!!! they couldnt employ the last two lots that qualified!

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in RN, BSN, CHDN.
well comments like the above just prove to me that she didnt have a clue about what a nurse really is!!!

Its probably a good job you went to the usa when you did kay, with you being management, as managers over here in the last six months have had a shock as they seem to be loosing jobs in middle management ie G and H grades all over the place to save money

i think 300 jobs are going to have to go at my trust, Staffordshire (down the road a bit) need to loose 1000, god knows what is going to happen, i never thought i would see nursing staff made redundant, especially whan we are so short staffed as it is!

it makes me laugh though there is a sign outside my hospital recruiting student nurses!!! they couldnt employ the last two lots that qualified!

I took a career break when I came over here I have 3 years to make it work or go home. But there is a possibility that i may not have a job to go back to.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Surgery, ICU, Emergency Care, NP.

i dont have a problem with expansion of roles, ie HCAs giving iv fluids, venepuncture etc but i do worry about people not understanding the consequences of an act at work, for example doing a procedure blindly without enough knowledge, i watched something along these lines the other night at work and sometimes it worries me, i also had a conversation with a HCA on my ward a little while ago who said to me 'the only difference between you and me is you do drugs!' i think i will do my nurse training

i replied if thats what you think you will never be a nurse!!

I have a huge problem with expansion of roles in unqualified staff because I dont think we know where to stop, this is why you get the attitude that being a qualified nurse is not that much different from being unqualified. The NMC has put guidence in one of its newsletters about appropriate deligation which is an interestng read. As far as HCA giving IV fluids NO absolutely not it is illegal. IV fluids are prescription only medicines even saline flushes which means are unqualifieds are legally not allowed to give them. Even though you delegate you as the qualifed nurse are still accountable and responsible for thier practice.

We delegate out all sorts of nursing duties and then complain when our most senior and experienced nurses lose thier jobs. Why employ someone at 20-30K a year when you can get a HCA to learn things that had previously been nursing roles and pay them much less.

I run a advanced practice service within my local trust and have 2 unqualified members of staff, I spend quite a bit of time in the managers office explaining why I wont allow them to cannulate, take arterial blood gases or catheterise so far my arguments have held steady.

Nurses need to look at what they delegate or soon we will be replacable with a cheeper alternative

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in renal,peritoneal dialysis, medicine.
I have a huge problem with expansion of roles in unqualified staff because I dont think we know where to stop, this is why you get the attitude that being a qualified nurse is not that much different from being unqualified. The NMC has put guidence in one of its newsletters about appropriate deligation which is an interestng read. As far as HCA giving IV fluids NO absolutely not it is illegal. IV fluids are prescription only medicines even saline flushes which means are unqualifieds are legally not allowed to give them. Even though you delegate you as the qualifed nurse are still accountable and responsible for thier practice.

We delegate out all sorts of nursing duties and then complain when our most senior and experienced nurses lose thier jobs. Why employ someone at 20-30K a year when you can get a HCA to learn things that had previously been nursing roles and pay them much less.

I run a advanced practice service within my local trust and have 2 unqualified members of staff, I spend quite a bit of time in the managers office explaining why I wont allow them to cannulate, take arterial blood gases or catheterise so far my arguments have held steady.

Nurses need to look at what they delegate or soon we will be replacable with a cheeper alternative

its funny that you should mention iv fluids.......

the other night i was asked to 'keep an eye' on the unit next door as the rgn had to go to A&E this unit has neutropenic patients who are recieving chemo, iv antibiotics etc many via pic or hickman lines.

the HCA who was on has worked on the unit for many years, she said to me as i came down the ward that she was just going to put up a flush on a patient who's gemini was bleeping so the next lot of antibiotics could start, 'oh' i thought, so i followed her into the room where she detached the abx bag during which she touched her apron with the clean 'spike end of the infusion set! i was horrified, so we leave the room at which i say 'if any more pumps need attention, come and get me and i will give you a hand' thinking this will sort of stop her from touching them again hmmmm

anyway about 10 mins later i hear a bleep, hot foot it down the ward into another patients sideroom to see her doing the same thing but with her fingers all over the spike, putting up antibiotics which were pre mixed by the nurse!!!

now, this is the problem, i think i should have a quiet word with the staff nurse, who is lovely but the sister on this ward has been quite aggressive towards us as a unit as we have to share a ward at present as our unit is undergoing building works, usually we have our own ward on another floor, the reception from her has been less than friendly!! but obviously the patients safety comes first. i was persuaded by the staff nurse on shift with me (more senior) that night not to say anything, but actually ive decided to have a chat with someone, i dont want to get anyone into trouble but i think the HCA needs someone to watch her technique for a while

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in renal,peritoneal dialysis, medicine.

actually now ive thought about this a bit more im fretting about it :stone

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in RN, BSN, CHDN.

You know I do think you have a obligation to the patient as their advocat to try and sort this out. I suggest the best way to handle it is to organise a teaching session when everybody is targeted as having a refresher, it could be shown as a confirmation that everybody is adhering to hospital policies and protocols. Ie you are all singing out of the same hymn book, then you are not seen as 'picking' on anybody in particular. As an RN you can utilise it as part of your prep or even meeting thresholds.

Remember that the HCSW is not accountable for her actions, you are as the RN. You could really enjoy and get satisfaction out of this little project.

Remember she could have been shown that way by an RN because there are some dodgy ones out there.;)

Up Vote Up Vote ×
+ Join the Discussion