Nursing diagnosis "altered energy field"

Josh L.Ac. · Feb 8, 2006

Anyone that is so disdainful of modern medicine and so enamored with mystical cures obviously does not need nursing. Go your own way. Start your own fields and clinics. You don't need us and we don't need you. Quit trying to use nursing to legitimize your wacky beliefs and let us continue our science based nursing practice. I don't have a problem with what you do. I have a problem with you piggybacking it into modern nursing.IMHO

Are these comments directed at me? Your post directly followed mine but it contained unclear antecedents.

You are much more diplomatic about this than I am. I would suggest that they surrender their nursing licenses and take out some that more clearly reflect their mystical beliefs. With all the talk about the benefits of the alternative methods, why do the advocates of alternate therapies never say anything about the results of hypnosis or admit the existence of a placebo effect?

Definition: "Straw man" may also refer to the straw man fallacy, a rhetorical technique (also classified as a logical fallacy) based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strawman_argument

You said that advocates of alternative therapies never say or admit the existence of placebo. This argument fails for two reasons:

1. Grouping all "alternative" modalities under one umbrella in order to make statements about the group ignores the evaluation of each modality based upon its own merit and evidence.

2. Many that perform research on various CAM / Integrative modalities are familiar with the existence of placebo.

For a good introduction to acupuncture research, here is an interview (a little dated) from the researcher that discovered the acupuncture-endorphin mechanism (note the 16 different lines of evidence): http://www.medicalacupuncture.org/acu_info/interviews/pomeranzart.html

zenman · Feb 8, 2006

. Without studies on the efficacy of therapies, what are we left with? Dark ages medicine!

You're really having great difficulties accepting that modern medicine has fallen behind, aren't you? There are literally thousand of studies out there. Not to attack you or others, but you gotta have more than raw emotional opinion to argue a point.

Osher Center for Integrative Medicine in your own back yard is conducting studies as we speak.

Works2xs · Feb 8, 2006

Looking over the list, they all seem to have some basis in Western tradition. Even when there is a "spiritual" aspect to the description of the diagnosis, it's more in a recognition of a problem in the general well-being, without judgement regarding specific cause. If it is specific, the cause behind it is linked to a western med presentation. Symptoms are listed in a similar manner. I also feel fairly comfortable in saying that the items are touched on, in some way, shape, or form, to what we learn in the class.

I'm still a student, so I'm admitting that my grasp on the finer details of the NANDA list is limited... but is there anything in the classic NCLEX-prep sort of educational model that provides any training in diagnosing an energy field? For those of you who've been through the exam, does the NCLEX include questions like: which dx is most appropriate for a patient with a warm spike in their energy field? (Sorry if this is insulting to the alt med folks.. just trying to represent a question type and I have no background to base it on.. so my appologies in advance if it comes across wrong).

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the concepts of alternative approaches. I'm not advocating any of them either. It's just that this particular dx seems conspicuous for it disconnect with the rest of the "theme" or "model" or whatever you want to call it that the rest of the list appears to adhere to.

So when it comes down to a question of "credibility", it just feels like this break in continuity gives the NANDA system the look of arbitrariness. If you want to extend the metaphor a bit, it disturbs the flow of the rest of the list. Kinda like someone showing up to a debutante ball dressed for a masquerade. It's not that the later is "wrong." It just doesn't belong.

Anyways.. it's late and I'm foggy, so this might not make too much sense. Was just curious if anyone else had the same impression. And if not, why not.

zenman · Feb 8, 2006

To those who have pm'd me wanting some "energy" exercises, here's a couple to get you started.

1. Get a partner and face each other slightly offset with right palms together about shoulder level. One partner agrees to go first and extends their palm forward, pushing partner B's palm back. Soon as partner A has pushed B's palm as far as it will go, partner B now pushes A's palm back. Keep going back and forth. After a minute of so, stop, shake your hands out and touch palms again. One partner agrees to go first, but instead of actually moving, do the movements with your mind. See what happens, especially when one gets lost and both push at the same time! Remember your hands are not moving. When you get good at it, do it with your palms apart.

2. Here's one I did with groups of thirty people at a time. Get a partner, preferably someone you know nothing about. It's more interesting if everyone wears long pants and shirts. Both are standing and each partner takes turns moving their hands from the head to the feet of their partner with their hands a couple inches off the body. Be aware of any sensation you feel, such as heat of cold, sensations such as drawing or repelling your hand, or anything that flashes through your mind. Change and let the other person do the same to you. Then discuss what you felt. 99% of every group has accurately pick up bruises, scars, old injuries, all kinds of current medical and even emotional problems. Since you're not touching the other person and they are covered up...how'd you do that, LOL!

bookwormom · Feb 8, 2006

***"Do you support this NANDA diagnosis? Or do you feel that this diagnosis threatens the legitamacy of our profession? Nanda still stands behind it. What are your thoughts? "***

I thought it might be interesting to refer to the original post that started this discussion. Clearly, this is a controversial ns dx. Even if valid, it seems to be a ns dx that many nurses would be unwilling or unable to make. It also seems like one that would be difficult to teach students to use consistently.

To me it is ,therefore, very different from most NANDA diagnoses, which relate to problems most nurses can identify and work with, depending on their settings and types of patients.

Is it necessary for all nurses to accept all NANDA ns dx? Would this ns dx not be a useful tool for the nurse using alternate modalities in his or her practice who wants to use nursing nomenclature?

I can live with it happily, as long as I am not required to teach it or use it. I'm wondering if anyone has been told they must teach this ns dx, or use it in practice, when it conflicts with their own convictions.

phoenix33 · Feb 8, 2006

Anyone seen Kirlian Photography? How else do you explain the leaf that's been cut or the limb that's been amputated which shows a light where the missing part was? Hmmm... musta been mystical powers that influenced the camera.........

Quote:

Originally Posted by SFCardiacRN

There is a nurse at the local county hospital that runs around using TT on under insured patients. She has an ego the size of the Auria Borealis and is the laughing stock of the hospital. Her practice is not helping nurses gain the respect we deserve. I reject mystical powers. I reject magical thinking. I tell you, your emperor has no clothes. You have traded your cow for a packet of magical beans and want the rest of us to support an invisible bean stalk.

Anyone who has a large ego has certainly missed the boat. A practitioner is not a "healer" but helps the client facilitate their own healing process, like the doctor who sets the bone. It's the bone that does the healing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SFCardiacRN

This is exactly my point. If someone really wants to be a healer they should go to medical school and earn it. But it is so much easier to take a weekend course, claim magical powers an depend on placebo effect for positive anecdotal results.

As a matter of FACT there are 27 medical schools in the Consortium of Academic Health Centers for Integrative Medicine (CAHCM), including Harvard and Georgetown University.

As for weekend courses, you certainly are not referring to Healing Touch or Therapeutic Touch programs.

Healing Touch was created by Janet Mentgen, BSN, RN and is a strict program of several levels including a one year mentorship, documentation of 100 sessions which includes assessment, intervention, rationale for techniques used, client response and referrals if any. You also must complete a case study as well as personal journal, book reports, professional portfolio and document experiences of 10 different modalities. Ethics are addressed (just like nursing school) and it's a given that a prudent practitioner would never treat an individual presenting with a health problem without encouraging them to seek medical advice. You are also encouraged to develop a rapport with that client's physician if possible.

Certification is even more indepth.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SFCardiacRN

I am NOT the one with a closed mind.

Then I suggest you do some more research and perhaps experience a session for yourself at a nursing convention or health fair. Like you, I thought it was "mystical, magical, voodoo" but figured I'd give it a try 7 years ago at a nursing convention. I left feeling more relaxed and with an enhanced sense of well being which made me go "hmmm". I then began reading book about chakras and different complimentary modalities and decided to enter the Healing Touch program. There are studies being done on the efficacy in various medical centers across the country and some Hospices utilize HT volunteers in their programs.

I would never want to see anyone forced to practice something which they find repulsive but do ask that you respect my differences as I respect yours. Insisting that practitioners like myself give up our licenses is in appropriate. I am a RN, I love the ART of nursing and would never do such a thing, nor would I ask anyone against complimentary modalities to do so.

Remember, allopathic medicine as we know it is fairly new in the grand scheme of things. I'm defiinitely not against it. In fact, I do take some medications, seek medical help when necessary and always have my yearly checkup. However, if there is something else that can help decrease the amount of medications required, help someone decrease their anxiety level or pain level, why not employ that as well?

phoenix33 · Feb 8, 2006

Forget the Kirlian comment folks. I've just been enlightened about the method used to display the images, something about moisture and leaching on the glass. So I'd say that was a bad example of altered energy field.

Hey, I can admit when I'm wrong and I DO believe I was wrong. :uhoh3:

SFCardiacRN · Feb 9, 2006

To those who have pm'd me wanting some "energy" exercises, here's a couple to get you started.

Parlor tricks can be fun but what have they got to do with nursing?

You're really having great difficulties accepting that modern medicine has fallen behind,

Fallen behind what? TT, crystal healing, Chinese herbs...I don't think so!

chadash · Feb 9, 2006

Whenever I see NANDA mentioned, forgive me, but I always think "NANU"

You know, Mork from Ork addressing Orson (the rotund one):"Nanu nanu!"

You all are too young to remember that Im sure.....

zenman · Feb 9, 2006

Parlor tricks can be fun but what have they got to do with nursing?

The exercises have nothing to do with nursing...but if you can pick up what's going on with a patient by running your hands over them, then you have to wonder about "energy fields." But you can always deny that a chair is not really a chair even if you can feel it under your butt!

allthingsbright · Feb 9, 2006

I dont know where that dx came from, but it sounds completely out of whack with the kind of Western medicine practiced here in the US. It almost seems like an attempt for Nanda to be cutting edge or PC or something?

Retired R.N. · Feb 9, 2006

The exercises have nothing to do with nursing...but if you can pick up what's going on with a patient by running your hands over them, then you have to wonder about "energy fields." But you can always deny that a chair is not really a chair even if you can feel it under your butt!

If you insist on calling static electricity some kind of mystical healing source, and can't sense the difference in temperature between your hands and something else without touching it, you may have a problem. If you get too close to someone or something that has a static charge, you may easily get zapped even though you don't touch it. This is nothing mystical, and the phenomenon can be measured and duplicated.