Nurse Practitioner Needed/Not Needed?

Tegridy · Feb 9, 2020

We need good ones from legit non or not for profit schools with rigorous curriculum.

We do not need more from degree mill writing papers and shadowing university

Bmack, BSN · Feb 16, 2020

On 2/5/2020 at 3:58 PM, Sigrimis said:
Please note... I know nurse practitioner schools are pushing for more nurse practitioners and say there is a need. The fact is NPs have grown over 100,000 just in the past few years. Before you decide to go to nurse practitioner school, look to see how many jobs there are in your area. You may be surprised at the fact that you may have to travel or relocate for work. Remember nurse practitioner schools want you to go to school so they can make money. Please also consider CRNA positions, as the salary is 3Xs NP salary in some locations. Please no negative comments...I speak from experience.

I was wondering about this myself. I’ve been an Occupational Therapist for 21 years and an RN for 15. I am in school to be an FNP because the OT job market is horrible because of new Medicare changes, but was never a large field to begin with. I am hoping I’m not making the same mistake! You can’t go by the bls occupational outlook handbook info because it says OT is to increase by like 35% and that was a straight, uneducated lie. Fifty percent of us have been laid off and only able to find sporadic, PRN work which isn’t enough to live on.

The rest of the OTs, PTs, and SLPs that have managed to keep full time employment have had their rates cut and benefits cut in half.

Megan1977, MSN, EdD, RN · Feb 18, 2020

On 2/6/2020 at 7:38 PM, kaylee. said:
Do a quick google search on the primary care shortage and you will see they are needed.

Make sure you pay special attention to where there are shortages of PCPs. I live in a large city in California and NPs are having difficulty finding positions- many are in direct competition with PAs for some practice areas. The more rural areas are still hiring NPs here but not everyone is willing to move.

Robmoo, ADN, BSN, RN · Feb 18, 2020

One of my colleagues finished her NP just to take a pay cut to stay in GI. She enjoys the lifestyle more, which is good for her. Frankly, I'm not sold on earning an NP. The benefits don't outweigh the expenses and effort as far as I can see in my situation.

I graduated from the El Centro Dallas Community College District program a bit over 20 years ago. Back then, the combined downtown and Brookhaven campus had a class of 80. Now they are separate programs. The El Centro program handles 320 nursing students. Back in the day the El Centro program had an excellent reputation, only 2 of us didn't pass our state boards on the first try, and we had no problem finding jobs even though there was no shortage at the time we graduated. Now El Centro only recently got off probation because their pass rate on the state boards was too low and I'm hearing of ADN graduates unable to find work for up to 8 months after graduating. The river of nursing students has become a mile wide. Is it 2 inches deep?

verene, MSN · Feb 21, 2020

As others have said there is definitely over-saturation of new graduate NPs in some specialties in some locations. It really, makes sense for ANYONE looking at making a career shift to do research before doing so. What kinds of jobs are out there? What do they realistically pay? Are you likely to need to move for education and/or employment? What is a realistic 1st entry-level job vs what is potential with a few years of experience? If you can't find your dream job as a new grad - can you find jobs that will build towards that goal? How do your current skills and experiences set you apart or make you an asset to the new position you are considering? Is the educational program you are applying to going to prepare you for what you want to do? What is the reputation of the program? Who are their "typical students"? Where do these students end up for clinicals? Where do they end up employed after graduation?

DrCOVID, DNP · Feb 28, 2020

On 2/9/2020 at 8:33 AM, Tegridy said:
We need good ones from legit non or not for profit schools with rigorous curriculum. We do not need more from degree mill writing papers and shadowing university

This currently the biggest issue and one I need to start spamming all over this forum. The DNP is getting a lot of hate and "not necessary" by nurses, this forum and the community... yet they forget to realize at least it is a step up. It is more rigorous, takes more time and means more people will shy away from it. The curricula are still a s!*$# and need a ton of work. But this is how you advance a profession.

APRNs want more autonomy and pay? Don't wanna be called mid-levels? Well then we have to up the standards! Tons of threads here dedicated to hating the DNP and sticking with MSN and these online programs which shouldn't exist in the first place. We learn practice by actually taking care of people... Jokes on us, because many choose to receive less education & training yet want more respect and autonomy and privileges. What a paradox!

The fact that you can get a practitioner license in 2 years should have never been a thing in the first place. If we had started with 4 years minimum... we would be in a better spot now, I wouldn't have to explain to everyone what DNP is and we would have more leverage as technically independent providers to bargain with employers and other providers...

Sigrimis · Feb 28, 2020

Truth! Agreed...

FullGlass, BSN, MSN, NP · Feb 29, 2020

9 hours ago, adammRN said:
This currently the biggest issue and one I need to start spamming all over this forum. The DNP is getting a lot of hate and "not necessary" by nurses, this forum and the community... yet they forget to realize at least it is a step up. It is more rigorous, takes more time and means more people will shy away from it. The curricula are still a s!*$# and need a ton of work. But this is how you advance a profession.
APRNs want more autonomy and pay? Don't wanna be called mid-levels? Well then we have to up the standards! Tons of threads here dedicated to hating the DNP and sticking with MSN and these online programs which shouldn't exist in the first place. We learn practice by actually taking care of people... Jokes on us, because many choose to receive less education & training yet want more respect and autonomy and privileges. What a paradox!
The fact that you can get a practitioner license in 2 years should have never been a thing in the first place. If we had started with 4 years minimum... we would be in a better spot now, I wouldn't have to explain to everyone what DNP is and we would have more leverage as technically independent providers to bargain with employers and other providers...

There is already a way to get a healthcare provider degree in 4 years. It's called medical school or DO school. NPs are not MDs. We have different roles.

Most people on this forums would be OK with the DNP if it provided a clinically oriented curriculum, but that is not the case. Most of the DNP courses are fluff on stuff like leadership. So I see the current DNP as a way for schools to make us spend more money without addressing the real issue of increasing the rigor of NP education.

One can make a valid argument that an MSN with an NP residency is sufficient to produce high quality NPs, if we got rid of the diploma mills.

Furthermore, given that nothing is being done about diploma mills, I'm sure they will soon start offering DNPs, if they haven't already.

murseman24, MSN, CRNA · Mar 1, 2020

On 2/28/2020 at 9:13 PM, FullGlass said:
There is already a way to get a healthcare provider degree in 4 years. It's called medical school or DO school. NPs are not MDs. We have different roles.
Most people on this forums would be OK with the DNP if it provided a clinically oriented curriculum, but that is not the case. Most of the DNP courses are fluff on stuff like leadership. So I see the current DNP as a way for schools to make us spend more money without addressing the real issue of increasing the rigor of NP education.
One can make a valid argument that an MSN with an NP residency is sufficient to produce high quality NPs, if we got rid of the diploma mills.
Furthermore, given that nothing is being done about diploma mills, I'm sure they will soon start offering DNPs, if they haven't already.

What they need to do is make med school an undergrad degree like they do in Europe.

FullGlass, BSN, MSN, NP · Mar 1, 2020

27 minutes ago, murseman24 said:
What they need to do is make med school an undergrad degree like they do in Europe.

I thought in Europe they do 3 years undergrad then 3 years med school. That is a savings of 2 years and a lot of money

DrCOVID, DNP · Mar 2, 2020

On 2/28/2020 at 8:13 PM, FullGlass said:
There is already a way to get a healthcare provider degree in 4 years. It's called medical school or DO school. NPs are not MDs. We have different roles.
Most people on this forums would be OK with the DNP if it provided a clinically oriented curriculum, but that is not the case. Most of the DNP courses are fluff on stuff like leadership. So I see the current DNP as a way for schools to make us spend more money without addressing the real issue of increasing the rigor of NP education.
One can make a valid argument that an MSN with an NP residency is sufficient to produce high quality NPs, if we got rid of the diploma mills.
Furthermore, given that nothing is being done about diploma mills, I'm sure they will soon start offering DNPs, if they haven't already.

This post is paradoxical. On one hand, there is already an option to become a provider, yet you don't want to improve the one that you chose? I don't get it. No one ever said they are the same thing. 2 separate state boards and sets of national orgs dictate scopes for both professions and they should be separate things. Why can't there be two options? Your rhetoric suggests you don't want to advance the profession YOU chose. Maybe you should consider medical school? My curriculum doesn't contain any leadership classes. All schools make money from the students, I mean come on medical school is like double my private brick and mortar!

Diploma mills exist because people want an easy, 2 year program they don't have to show up for but do clinic. That is almost the same as fluff in the curricula, as it's easy, boring, and no one is interested in it (statistics and research based in mine). Everyone in my class agrees it should be changed since we are preparing to be providers. Stats and research should be left to those who choose PhD. Most of my class will not be recommending this program. It has a lot of issues but we all still want to be providers and not go back to school for something else.

Mind you tons of research on comparison of outcomes. You should take a look sir MD proponent; https://www.aanp.org/advocacy/advocacy-resource/position-statements/quality-of-nurse-practitioner-practice

FullGlass, BSN, MSN, NP · Mar 2, 2020

2 hours ago, adammRN said:
This post is paradoxical. On one hand, there is already an option to become a provider, yet you don't want to improve the one that you chose? I don't get it. No one ever said they are the same thing. 2 separate state boards and sets of national orgs dictate scopes for both professions and they should be separate things. Why can't there be two options? Your rhetoric suggests you don't want to advance the profession YOU chose. Maybe you should consider medical school? My curriculum doesn't contain any leadership classes. All schools make money from the students, I mean come on medical school is like double my private brick and mortar!
Diploma mills exist because people want an easy, 2 year program they don't have to show up for but do clinic. That is almost the same as fluff in the curricula, as it's easy, boring, and no one is interested in it (statistics and research based in mine). Everyone in my class agrees it should be changed since we are preparing to be providers. Stats and research should be left to those who choose PhD. Most of my class will not be recommending this program. It has a lot of issues but we all still want to be providers and not go back to school for something else.
Mind you tons of research on comparison of outcomes. You should take a look sir MD proponent; https://www.aanp.org/advocacy/advocacy-resource/position-statements/quality-of-nurse-practitioner-practice

Respectfully, you misunderstood my post. My point is that people who want a 4 year program already have an option. You are not going to get much support for turning the NP program into a 4 year program. Given that all the studies done to date have shown NPs provide good quality care, and these were done with the current system of Master's Degree NPs, I fail to see the actual need for a DNP.

I'm fine with the DNP as an option, but I oppose making it mandatory.

Furthermore, the main criticism of NPs is lack of clinical hours. A residency would solve that problem. And at least an NP gets paid during a residency.

I'm glad you have found a substantive DNP program. However, many are not.

Finally, I do not find you very credible given that you previously stated becoming an MD is the easy way to make a bunch of money. Good day to you.