Nurse Practitioner Needed/Not Needed?

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Please note... I know nurse practitioner schools are pushing for more nurse practitioners and say there is a need. The fact is NPs have grown over 100,000 just in the past few years. Before you decide to go to nurse practitioner school, look to see how many jobs there are in your area. You may be surprised at the fact that you may have to travel or relocate for work. Remember nurse practitioner schools want you to go to school so they can make money. Please also consider CRNA positions, as the salary is 3Xs NP salary in some locations. Please no negative comments...I speak from experience.

12 minutes ago, jfmDNP said:

The DNP as a terminal degree is here to stay. While I initially debated on getting mine, in the end I saw value and applicability. Not to mention meeting some of the most talented individuals in the field as a whole and learning directly from them. However, I do believe the profession can build on this and improve the MSN-NP level curriculum. It should mirror the rigor of CRNA programs. We should promote residencies and fellowships. Clinical hours, exposure and experience are fundamental to our training. It can be further formalized and standardized in the academic setting. And even more importantly, we need to reevaluate the value of diploma mills on the profession.

It means nothing when I can choose from hundreds of programs that are part time, cheap, quick and online while checking the proverbial box.

The real insidious problems are what you mentioned: poor program structure, zero accountability and laughable clinical hours. what kind of "profession" makes its student find their OWN training? Until the NP world gets it together I refuse to accept the DNP as anything more than a piece of paper/check the box. I can not believe the DNP vs MSN is serious argument when the rest of NP education is in shambles compared to most healthcare professions.

When I started my residency I was shocked how better prepared interns were. All of my fellow NP residents went to large state schools and we were't even close to their level despite years of RN experience.

1 Votes

Hi Everyone,

This is a bit off topic, but I had a question I was wondering someone could answer for me because I am actually having a hard time finding a direct answer on the web. I am a career switcher currently doing my pre-reqs. I have applied to some ABSN programs but am also interested in some direct entry MSN programs, The ones I am looking at state you will graduate with an MSN -Clinical Nurse leader. Would having this shorten the time to later go for my NP? if so how long and do you know of any schools that do an MSN to NP program? I am sorry- I am not sure on the details of how that works so I am just trying to gather info form informed people as I plan my future. Thank you in advance for any responses!

Specializes in Psych/Mental Health.
1 hour ago, NurseKat6 said:

The ones I am looking at state you will graduate with an MSN -Clinical Nurse leader. Would having this shorten the time to later go for my NP?

You have to do a side-by-side comparison between the requirements of the NP programs and whether those NP programs will accept the credits from the CNL program. A lot of NP (MSN or DNP) programs don't take transfer credits (they need to make money). So you might end up repeating classes like epidemiology and health policy. In general, I discourage the CNL route. There is no practical value to that degree (to put it lightly), especially if your goal is NP.

1 hour ago, NurseKat6 said:

if so how long and do you know of any schools that do an MSN to NP program?

I don't know. But is there a burning reason you want to get a CNL?

If you want to go to a Direct-Entry program, there are many Direct-Entry NP programs. Or you can finish a ABSN and then apply to NP programs shortly after.

1 hour ago, NurseKat6 said:

Hi Everyone,

This is a bit off topic, but I had a question I was wondering someone could answer for me because I am actually having a hard time finding a direct answer on the web. I am a career switcher currently doing my pre-reqs. I have applied to some ABSN programs but am also interested in some direct entry MSN programs, The ones I am looking at state you will graduate with an MSN -Clinical Nurse leader. Would having this shorten the time to later go for my NP? if so how long and do you know of any schools that do an MSN to NP program? I am sorry- I am not sure on the details of how that works so I am just trying to gather info form informed people as I plan my future. Thank you in advance for any responses!

Hello, It will cut out a few courses but it is not going to significantly impact the time it takes to get an NP. A direct entry program as a clinical nurse leader is kind of an oxymoron ....... I have met a few people who have gotten into leadership roles with such programs but they had to put their time on the floor first but it did leave them in a good position to jump into the leadership positions when they opened up.

Specializes in anesthesiology.
2 hours ago, Numenor said:

Look you can do what you want, but this is the epitome of what wrong with advanced practice nursing. Too focused on fluffed drawn out courses/titles rather than fixing the root of the NP problem which is laughable clinical hours, no program oversight and lack of residencies. We have 600 clinical hours vs a MDs 15000 and NPs are more focused on a nonsensical debate of masters vs doctorate.

Good day.

Just fyi NONE of them have 15000 hours, that has been debunked in great detail, the hours just don't add up any way you put it, that is grossly overestimated. It also illustrates the point you're making. They don't care what degree you have, if you are a threat and not an MD/DO they will fight you tooth and nail and denigrate everything they can about your profession. You could make getting your NP a 7 year residency and they would still say in the end that those are "nursing" hours, and therefore not equivalent to a year in medicine. They don't care what degree you have, I definitely wouldn't get a DNP to get some physician's approval

1 Votes
51 minutes ago, murseman24 said:

Just fyi NONE of them have 15000 hours, that has been debunked in great detail, the hours just don't add up any way you put it, that is grossly overestimated. It also illustrates the point you're making. They don't care what degree you have, if you are a threat and not an MD/DO they will fight you tooth and nail and denigrate everything they can about your profession. You could make getting your NP a 7 year residency and they would still say in the end that those are "nursing" hours, and therefore not equivalent to a year in medicine. They don't care what degree you have, I definitely wouldn't get a DNP to get some physician's approval

Sorry, but you are wrong. A resident on average works 6 days a week and puts in 10-14 hours a day with 2-3 weeks off a year. An average internal medicine residency is 3 years while other specialties are 4 and sub specialties are 5+. Doing the math, the LEAST hours a resident could put in would be around 10,000 for a 3 year residency and around 15000 for a 4 year residency. How would I know? I literally work with them and know their every day schedules. In addition, you aren't even accounting for their med school hours which are several thousand hours alone.

Actually, a lot of the residents and attendings were impressed that the NPs rotated in the same rotations as residents and worked along side them. Frankly many were horrified that NPs from online schools were independent with 600 hour of rotations.I mean who could blame them? I am not going to assume their thoughts, but no one gave me the impression that they were simply "nursing hours".

I am pointing out the obvious. Regardless if its 10k vs 15, there are people in the NP world propagating a BS online doctorate while ignoring the fact that the average NP program sits at 600-700s hours of clinical time.

1 Votes

Thank you @Rnis!

@umbdude Thank you. Unfortunately I missed the deadlines for most of the direct entry NP programs, so I was just looking at the CNL as a possible option. Unless I may have overlooked a direct entry NP- when I search them the Generic MSNs are pooled into those searches ?

Specializes in Psych/Mental Health.
9 hours ago, NurseKat6 said:

Thank you @Rnis!

@umbdude Thank you. Unfortunately I missed the deadlines for most of the direct entry NP programs, so I was just looking at the CNL as a possible option. Unless I may have overlooked a direct entry NP- when I search them the Generic MSNs are pooled into those searches ?

It might worth waiting to get into a direct-entry NP program if you are looking to become an NP (keep in mind that direct-entry NP programs are very competitive). Or if you are not oppose to working as a RN, go the ABSN route then back to NP part-time while working as a RN for money.

1 Votes
On 4/17/2020 at 9:25 AM, umbdude said:

It might worth waiting to get into a direct-entry NP program if you are looking to become an NP (keep in mind that direct-entry NP programs are very competitive). Or if you are not oppose to working as a RN, go the ABSN route then back to NP part-time while working as a RN for money.

thank you for the reply- much appreciated!

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