Nurse fired for calling police

deyo321 · Jul 29, 2008

If someone is throwing things at me may I consider that assault?

Runman1914, MSN, RN · Jul 30, 2008

I believe you need to go back and reread just what I posted. Police cannot enter private property without either a warrant or in pursuit of someone. And to clarify this, if I call 911 and request the police come to my home, unless my life is in danger or I am the listed renter or property owner, they must determine if my call is valid. This does not mean they can bust down the front door to gain access, to determine this, unless they have clear justification. Someone yelling at another person is not considered a valid reason for police to enter private property. Hospitals have set policies regarding calling law enforcement into their facilities. In the hospitals I know, a nurse manager is not sufficiently high up to call the police into her facility.
You example is kind of silly. If SOMEONE IS BEING ASSAULTED OR MURDERED, THEN THE POLICE do have probable cause and the right to enter. But if someone calls from a hospital, most 911 dispatchers would determine just who is making the request. Sorry, if it isn't a shift supervisor or higher, then the cops do not have the right to automatically enter the hospital, which is considered private property. If you disagree with your hospital's policy on unruly visitors, then take steps to correct it. And by taking steps, I mean within the hospital. If that fails, then go to the press.
Sorry but I do not feel one tiny bit sorry for the nurse that was fired. She stepped outside of her hospitals rules. If no one was being physically injured, calling the police for someone who is unruly is out of bounds. And if the hospital refuses to back up its staff, they are not the only fish in the sea.
Woody:twocents:

Woody not to sound fasicous but are you a lawyer or have some sort of legal background? I have noticed in 2 of your post that you quote laws. Can you provide a copy of these laws? Not trying to sound like a smart a$$ but i would like to know the law on this for future reference.

Atheos · Jul 30, 2008

sorry but i do not feel one tiny bit sorry for the nurse that was fired. she stepped outside of her hospitals rules. if no one was being physically injured, calling the police for someone who is unruly is out of bounds. and if the hospital refuses to back up its staff, they are not the only fish in the sea.
woody:twocents:

once again incorrect. if you call and hang up they will enter your home. if you call and say any crime is in progress they will enter a private property. a person can be arrested and or police called by the operator (which the supreme court has determined to include an employee of operator) of a state licensed facility. hospitals have state licenses...

the supreme court decision illinois v. gates (1983) lowered the threshold of probable cause by ruling that a "substantial chance" or "fair probability" of criminal activity could establish probable cause. a better-than-even chance is not required.

probable cause exists when "the facts and circumstances within the arresting officer's knowledge are sufficient to warrant a prudent person to believe that a suspect has committed, is committing, or is about to commit a crime." united states v. hoyos, 892 f.2d 1387, 1392 (9th cir. 1989), cert. denied, 489 u.s. 825 (1990) (citing united states v. greene, 783 f.2d 1364, 1367 (9th cir. 1986), cert. denied, 476 u.s. 1185 (1986)).

florida

877.03 breach of the peace; disorderly conduct.--whoever commits such acts as are of a nature to corrupt the public morals, or outrage the sense of public decency, or affect the peace and quiet of persons who may witness them, or engages in brawling or fighting, or engages in such conduct as to constitute a breach of the peace or disorderly conduct, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083. (1) an operator may take a person into custody and detain that person in a reasonable manner and for a reasonable time if the operator has probable cause to believe that the person was engaging in disorderly conduct in violation of s. 877.03 on the premises of the licensed establishment and that such conduct was creating a threat to the life or safety of the person or others. the operator shall call a law enforcement officer to the scene immediately after detaining a person under this subsection.(2) a law enforcement officer may arrest, either on or off the premises of the licensed establishment and without a warrant, any person the officer has probable cause to believe violated s. 877.03 on the premises of a licensed establishment and, in the course of such violation, created a threat to the life or safety of the person or others.

the only standard is whether or not the nurse believed the person was a threat to her safety. obviously she did. the woman was kicking and screaming. security had been called numerous times.

btw - assault in florida

784.011 assault.--

(1) an "assault" is an intentional, unlawful threat by word or act to do violence to the person of another, coupled with an apparent ability to do so, and doing some act which creates a well-founded fear in such other person that such violence is imminent.

while i am no lawyer, the law speaks for itself...

Atheos · Jul 30, 2008

Sorry about the long posts. Woody was 'quoting' laws he obviously has a misunderstanding about. I tried to make it short. Oh well...

Jail house lawyers get more people in trouble than anyone else. Your best bet is to read the statutes in your state.

"[T]he Law . . . should be accessible to everyone and at all times." --Franz Kafka, The Trial

RN1982 · Jul 30, 2008

Calling security or the police on unruly visitors is NOT out of bounds. Sorry, but I'm not putting myself nor my patients nor my co-workers in harm's way. Last year, there was a patient the beat the tar out of a nursing aide, do you think they just called security, no they called the police. The police came and arrested the patient. So to say that calling the police is out of bounds is stupid and irresponsible.

Runman1914, MSN, RN · Jul 30, 2008

Sorry about the long posts. Woody was 'quoting' laws he obviously has a misunderstanding about. I tried to make it short. Oh well...
Jail house lawyers get more people in trouble than anyone else. Your best bet is to read the statutes in your state.
"[T]he Law . . . should be accessible to everyone and at all times." --Franz Kafka, The Trial

Thank you alot Stanley. I cant stand when people make up their own laws. Im waiting for woody to debate this one.

deyo321 · Jul 30, 2008

Bravo Stanley.

elizadream · Jul 30, 2008

Last year while eating at local restuarant i witnessed an irate customer being removed by police for screaming at the staff. Last month i witness a patient daughter screaming at staff for more than a week , security called almost every day. She was 10 times worse than the restuarant customer. Each day the nurse manager and administration kissed her butt and apologized. She would make a scene , throw things, etc...
Everyday she was given a new nurse. Nurses were calling off like crazy to avoid this unpleaseasble daughter. Finally after multiple problems with this daughter it came to a head. She came into the nursing station and began to throw things. The charge nurse called the police and she had to be removed kicking and screaming. One week later the nurse was fired for not handling it internally!!!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I was working a Christmas eve when 2 male family members came in demanding to look at their mother's chart. The pt was an elderly bed bound female with gross gangrenous bilateral lower extremities and was living at home with family members. Ems brought her into our ER. Upon admission, she was sent to CT due to AMS. During the scan a "mayday" was called. She came to our ICU where the verbal violence broke out. The 2 sons (both with etoh on their breath) started yelling at me to let them see the mayday record. One of them had a cane and was jabbing it in the air towards me. I called a code yellow and some male staff members from pharmacy arrived. Then the so called security came in and could not control them. I finally called 911 and one cop arrived...when the abusers saw the cop, they were apologetic and started saying they were just emotional, esp. since it was Christmas time, blah, blah, and were sorry. I was not fired and the incident was never brought up-not even by my manager. NO ONE IN UPPER MANAGEMENT EVER QUESTIONED ME! I lost a lot of faith in humanity that Christmas-

Eliza

Altra, BSN, RN · Jul 30, 2008

I believe you need to go back and reread just what I posted. Police cannot enter private property without either a warrant or in pursuit of someone. And to clarify this, if I call 911 and request the police come to my home, unless my life is in danger or I am the listed renter or property owner, they must determine if my call is valid. This does not mean they can bust down the front door to gain access, to determine this, unless they have clear justification.

I'm sorry but this is just plain wrong.

If I call 911 & request assistance, a police officer will be dispatched. Period.

If it is determined later that I called for an entirely bogus reason, I could be charged with making a false report or some such thing, but that is not at all the scenario that's being discussed here.

UM Review RN, ASN, RN · Jul 30, 2008

In one of our satellite hospitals here in FL, a family member assaulted a nurse. The nurse immediately called the cops and then Security. She still has her job and her self-esteem intact. The family member went to jail and was only allowed to see the patient under supervision.

'Nuff said.

MA Nurse · Jul 30, 2008

I am so sick and tired of hospitals kissing "customers'" as...hospitals are too worried about pleasing the customer than doing the right thing!!

Home Health Columnist / Guide · Jul 30, 2008

Seriously consider employment lawyer for 2 reasons.

1. Hostile work environment

2. JCAHO: "Behaviors That Undermine A Culture of Safety"