Nurse fired for calling police

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Last year while eating at local restuarant i witnessed an irate customer being removed by police for screaming at the staff. Last month i witness a patient daughter screaming at staff for more than a week , security called almost every day. She was 10 times worse than the restuarant customer. Each day the nurse manager and administration kissed her butt and apologized. She would make a scene , throw things, etc...

Everyday she was given a new nurse. Nurses were calling off like crazy to avoid this unpleaseasble daughter. Finally after multiple problems with this daughter it came to a head. She came into the nursing station and began to throw things. The charge nurse called the police and she had to be removed kicking and screaming. One week later the nurse was fired for not handling it internally!!!

Specializes in CVICU, Burns, Trauma, BMT, Infection control.

Hospital Administration apparently feels that losing nurses by their getting injured,quitting,etc is less expensive than a lawsuit by the ill mannered,out of control family.

Since they(most Hospitals) are hurting for revenue in this customer service model gone amok they are not backing the nurses and even chastise nurses if they try to set limits with unreasonable or violent pts.In some cases when nurses are actually injured the hospital tries to get them not to notify the authorities and keep it internal which is not appropriate and certainly does send a horrible message.

Lawyers seem to be all they understand right now,document and get a lawyer and if you get fired you will have some recourse.We need to show administration that we will not allow ourselves to be abused.

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Specializes in icu, er, transplant, case management, ps.
once again incorrect. if you call and hang up they will enter your home. if you call and say any crime is in progress they will enter a private property. a person can be arrested and or police called by the operator (which the supreme court has determined to include an employee of operator) of a state licensed facility. hospitals have state licenses...

the supreme court decision illinois v. gates (1983) lowered the threshold of probable cause by ruling that a "substantial chance" or "fair probability" of criminal activity could establish probable cause. a better-than-even chance is not required.

probable cause exists when "the facts and circumstances within the arresting officer's knowledge are sufficient to warrant a prudent person to believe that a suspect has committed, is committing, or is about to commit a crime." united states v. hoyos, 892 f.2d 1387, 1392 (9th cir. 1989), cert. denied, 489 u.s. 825 (1990) (citing united states v. greene, 783 f.2d 1364, 1367 (9th cir. 1986), cert. denied, 476 u.s. 1185 (1986)).

florida

877.03 breach of the peace; disorderly conduct.--whoever commits such acts as are of a nature to corrupt the public morals, or outrage the sense of public decency, or affect the peace and quiet of persons who may witness them, or engages in brawling or fighting, or engages in such conduct as to constitute a breach of the peace or disorderly conduct, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083. (1) an operator may take a person into custody and detain that person in a reasonable manner and for a reasonable time if the operator has probable cause to believe that the person was engaging in disorderly conduct in violation of s. 877.03 on the premises of the licensed establishment and that such conduct was creating a threat to the life or safety of the person or others. the operator shall call a law enforcement officer to the scene immediately after detaining a person under this subsection.(2) a law enforcement officer may arrest, either on or off the premises of the licensed establishment and without a warrant, any person the officer has probable cause to believe violated s. 877.03 on the premises of a licensed establishment and, in the course of such violation, created a threat to the life or safety of the person or others.

the only standard is whether or not the nurse believed the person was a threat to her safety. obviously she did. the woman was kicking and screaming. security had been called numerous times.

btw - assault in florida

784.011 assault.--

(1) an "assault" is an intentional, unlawful threat by word or act to do violence to the person of another, coupled with an apparent ability to do so, and doing some act which creates a well-founded fear in such other person that such violence is imminent.

while i am no lawyer, the law speaks for itself...

i guess charlotte county sheriff's department is unaware of this portion of the law. two weeks ago, i dialed 911 but disconnected almost immediately and left the room i had made the telephone call from. my phone rang but by the time i got to my phone, no one was on it. approximately ten minutes later, the doorbell rang, then there was a knock on my window(it fronts on the driveway). i went to the door and found a sheriff's deputy who asked for my name and if i had made a telephone call to 911? i replied yes. he had been given my address by the dispatcher, our system has our addresses pop up when a call is made. he did not ask for identification, he did not ask to come into the house. he accepted my explanation. i offered to go get my driver's license to prove who i was, which i did but i certainly wasn't asked for it.

if i hadn't responded to the doorbell or the knock on the window, i certainly hope he would have forced his way in but he does not necessarily have to. in august of 2005 the police were called by the parents of a college student, asking for assistance in entering a 'boyfriend's apartment' to check to see if she was in there. while the police responded and the family provide a cell phone showing an out of town call from the boyfriend, the police refused to enter the apartment without his permission. her step father finally entered thru a window he broke and found her headless body in the bathtub. the boyfriend's attorneys attempted to get evidence tossed saying he never gave them permission to enter. they almost succeed. my point, police cannot automatically enter private property. they have to have cause, they just can't come onto private property and enter without reason. the police, in texas, apparently didn't feel they had cause to enter a private apartment, where a young woman's headless dead body lie in a bathtub. as a matter of fact, they got a search warrant, after determining the person was dead, before reentering the apartment.

i am not a cop nor an attorney. but i have relatives and friends who were and are.

woody:twocents:

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Cops are not required to do anything. In your case it was a hangup and he probably thought everything was ok. If they heard a gasp or a thud they would have looked in the windows at least. They won't run in willy nilly but they can if someone calls them and tells them to come in. Even if it is not the owner of the house.

A cop does not have to come in and check. They can however. The cop accepted your explanation and it was enough for him. If the cop didn't believe you he probably would have insisted on coming in. If there was yelling on the 911 call, which I am pretty sure occurred in the hospital they will come in.

Cause is usually decided by the police. The apartment in 2005 would not be cause. Someone not being home is not cause. People leave. That is also why there is a waiting period for missing persons. People do just leave sometimes. If a window was broken open or the door broken they would have gone in. If there was a 911 call with someone saying help or yelling they would have gone in.

My entire family is also in the police force, except for the half that rebelled and joined the military...

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Specializes in icu, er, transplant, case management, ps.

Everyone appears to have a story about a friend being assaulted by a patient or family member and calling the police. Hey, I had the experience of being picked up and tossed thru a glass room divider, by a patient's son, who I was discharging AMA from ICU. I did not call the police, security did, the people who should have. I have also been verbally harassed by family members but I have never called the police to solve the problem.

I guess I should have been arrested when I threaten to slap a nurse, who after two request, refused to stop digging around in the back of my hand, causing me pain, after all, according to you I was wrong. Or perhaps I should have had her arrested for A & B when she refused to stop digging into my hand. I was wrong in threating but she was equally wrong in assaulting and committing battery on me. So, you see there are always two sides to everything.

Woody:twocents:

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Everyone appears to have a story about a friend being assaulted by a patient or family member and calling the police. Hey, I had the experience of being picked up and tossed thru a glass room divider, by a patient's son, who I was discharging AMA from ICU. I did not call the police, security did, the people who should have. I have also been verbally harassed by family members but I have never called the police to solve the problem.

I guess I should have been arrested when I threaten to slap a nurse, who after two request, refused to stop digging around in the back of my hand, causing me pain, after all, according to you I was wrong. Or perhaps I should have had her arrested for A & B when she refused to stop digging into my hand. I was wrong in threating but she was equally wrong in assaulting and committing battery on me. So, you see there are always two sides to everything.

Woody:twocents:

Hey I didn't vote in the last election. I doesn't mean I can't vote if I choose to in the next. You talk of two sides but you are pretty harsh. The police are there TO be called. Whether or not it is an inappropriate call shouldn't be left up to a suit or any other lay person... That decision belongs to the police or DA. The hospital that fired the nurse for not keeping it internal is the same kind of company that fires someone for whistle blowing instead of going up the chain of command.

If I was attacked and told not to call the police I would call the police and also let them know that the person telling me not too was trying to restrain me. That in and of itself is a crime. Threats and violence are never to be tolerated. It is not up to you or a company to decide if something is a crime. Thank you very much for trying but my taxes pay people like DA's that are qualified to make that decision.

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Specializes in Med/Surg, Rehab, Burn, dialys.

I know the feeling. I worked LTC and the crap we had to put up with from families. One in particular, his mom was resident, hospice, she was alert but dying, son went behind the desk and got her chart and took it to her room and was reading it. Facility policy was families could view chart in presense of charge nurse. I asked him if he had any questions and he said not yet. I asked him how he got the chart and he replied "no one was at the desk so I got it myself" I stood there in the room with him and he got up, left the room and slammed the door so hard I thought it would fall off. His mother laying there in bed just wanting peace and quiet. he then followed me back behind the nurses station and threatened me with, "you better not mess with me little missy" I firmly asked him to step to the other side of counter which he did. I called Administrator and within 5 minutes on the phone he was apologizing all over the place. What a manic episode! scary, but I told administrator if I had any more problems with this man the first call i make would be to Sheriff. I was later fired for "complaint from family member". Now I know they did me a favor, because there is nothing like that where I work now.

Get a lawyer, hospitals used to not let anyone in halls speak above a whisper and signs on the streets around hospitals warning them to drive quietly, no honking horns, etc. How this has changed is amazing!!!

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Specializes in icu, er, transplant, case management, ps.
Hey I didn't vote in the last election. I doesn't mean I can't vote if I choose to in the next. You talk of two sides but you are pretty harsh. The police are there TO be called. Whether or not it is an inappropriate call shouldn't be left up to a suit or any other lay person... That decision belongs to the police or DA. The hospital that fired the nurse for not keeping it internal is the same kind of company that fires someone for whistle blowing instead of going up the chain of command.

If I was attacked and told not to call the police I would call the police and also let them know that the person telling me not too was trying to restrain me. That in and of itself is a crime. Threats and violence are never to be tolerated. It is not up to you or a company to decide if something is a crime. Thank you very much for trying but my taxes pay people like DA's that are qualified to make that decision.

I was physically attacked and the police were called but not by me. I left it to my charge nurse, to call security and our shift supervisor. I didn't jump up and run to a phone to call the police. Some seem to think that I am standing up for the rights of the family and am against nurses. I am not. I just believe that it is up to a supervisor or a shift security head to determine the need for outside assistance, unless SOMEONE IS BEING PHYSICALLY ATTACKED. I don't know of any staff member who has suffered physically as a result of a verbal assault from a patient or family member.

As for the nurse being fired. We have only one side of the picture. A side that reflects positively on the nurse. Her actions may or may not have been warranted but we will never know.

Woody:twocents:

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Specializes in LTC/Peds/ICU/PACU/CDI.
i was physically attacked and the police were called but not by me. i left it to my charge nurse, to call security and our shift supervisor. i didn't jump up and run to a phone to call the police. some seem to think that i am standing up for the rights of the family and am against nurses. i am not. i just believe that it is up to a supervisor or a shift security head to determine the need for outside assistance, unless someone is being physically attacked. i don't know of any staff member who has suffered physically as a result of a verbal assault from a patient or family member.

as for the nurse being fired. we have only one side of the picture. a side that reflects positively on the nurse. her actions may or may not have been warranted but we will never know.

woody:twocents:

woody, your logic makes my head hurt :banghead:! i mean...you keep saying: "....unless someone is being physically attacked..." ; yet *you* yourself *was* physically attacked (even thrown through a plate glass window/door) & you just left it up to your supervisor &/or security to make that 911 call? that makes *no* :no: logical sense what so ever...sorry :zzzzz!

:up: the police need & should be called *before* any physical attacks occurs. one strike/blow could be just the thing which actually *ends* somebody's life! next you'll blame :argue: the victim for not getting out of the way fast enough :rolleyes:!

:banghead: just think about what you're trying to say woody - *please*!!!

cheers :cheers:,

moe

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Specializes in LTC.

My main concern in this situation is the safety of all the patients, staff, and friends/family that happen to be there during these multiple incidents. Clearly, the situation was escalating and management did not intervene to resolve it. I believe any reasonable person would take measures to obtain help--either through security, page management, or the police. I am uncomfortable with the knowledge that management did not intervene to resolve the root cause of the problem--an unhappy family member. If this person abused another patient, the nurse would certainly be questioned as to why the problem was not solved before it reached this level. I would probably hand these multiple incidents to management to resolve. I believe that is their task--manage staff and others. In the end, the unhappy family member may repeat these aggressive incidents and involve another nurse. The problem did not go away, it needs to be addressed and resolved by management.

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Specializes in Utilization Management.
I was physically attacked and the police were called but not by me. I left it to my charge nurse, to call security and our shift supervisor. I didn't jump up and run to a phone to call the police. Some seem to think that I am standing up for the rights of the family and am against nurses. I am not. I just believe that it is up to a supervisor or a shift security head to determine the need for outside assistance, unless SOMEONE IS BEING PHYSICALLY ATTACKED. I don't know of any staff member who has suffered physically as a result of a verbal assault from a patient or family member.

As for the nurse being fired. We have only one side of the picture. A side that reflects positively on the nurse. Her actions may or may not have been warranted but we will never know.

Woody:twocents:

Am I understanding you? Your posts state that the supervisor should make the decision to call the police and that the nurse should only call Security and notify the supervisor. Because she did not follow protocol, then the hospital was justified in firing her. Is that correct?

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Thank you for some ammunition to post in my unit's "lunch room".

Eliza

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Specializes in icu, er, transplant, case management, ps.
Am I understanding you? Your posts state that the supervisor should make the decision to call the police and that the nurse should only call Security and notify the supervisor. Because she did not follow protocol, then the hospital was justified in firing her. Is that correct?

Actually, my charge nurse had summoned security, prior to the patient's discharge because we had received a telephone call from his mother, indicating a possible physical confrontation. I was expected to follow the policies of the hospital I was working in. Our policies clearly directed what steps a staff person could take and they did not included calling 911 independently. I might add, the police were called, by our ER resident, when brothers told him they had a gun and were coming to ICU to shoot their sister-in-law because they blamed her for his suicide attempt. Unfortunately, he was one of my two patients. And his brothers showed up before the cops got there, with the gun in one of their hands. I did not panic nor fall to pieces. And a few minutes later the police arrived, took the gun from me, which I had gotten them to hand over and arrested the two of them. So please do not moan and groan about being verbally assaulted. I have had to face a gun and been tossed through a glass room divider. And suffered no ill effects from either incident.

How would you like it, if I had picked up the phone, in my ER room, called 911 and reported I was being assaulted and having battery committed against me by a staff nurse. Judging on the previous responses I've gotten when I posted about this incident, not one little bit. You would have felt I was over reaching, that I could have done something else, that I didn't have to threat to slap her (which is just about what others maintained).

As for the nurse being fired. I have worked in hospital administration. We don't just fire someone for calling the police. I think there is much more to this story then the OP posted. She gave her side only, which was slanted to favor her, not the hospital nor the family. With the exception of a very small privately owned hospital, here in Florida, no one has ever been fired for doing one thing wrong. The hospitals I have worked at, all had steps that had to be gone thru before one could be terminated. Shorted of harming a patient or stealing drugs would get you fired. And now only the harming a patient does.

If a family member were to continue to abuse me and if the hospital administration refused to take steps to protect me, other staff, other patients and families, I would quit. And after I got another job, I would contact the rpess. They love a juicey story. But I have been verbally abused, sometimes by patient's or a family member but more often by physicians and residents, who take it to physical abuse. And nothing is done to them.

Woody:twocents:

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