Why is it MEN seem to get along better in this field than WOMEN??!!! - page 4
Hello this was brought up to me so now I'm sharing it with you all, I had a new R.N. nurse come to me in tears because another R.N. treated and talked to her very badly when she asked her basic... Read More
May 11, '04Joined: Oct '02; Posts: 60,387; Likes: 16,576Quote from oramarJust look at Washington to see how well men play with others. Not well IMHO.Men also murder each other at a rate 10 times higher than women. So it is a matter of perspective.
May 11, '04Occupation: Corrections Nurse Joined: Apr '04; Posts: 173; Likes: 9Bottom line is that men don't hold grudges like women. If I get into it with a male co worker we can still work side by side and by the end of the shift we would buy the other a beer. Ladies, "Say what you mean and mean what you say." Makes life much easier.
May 11, '04Occupation: Student Joined: Jul '02; Posts: 190; Likes: 3Quote from susannaAs I've been reading this thread, that exactly what I've been doing - rolling my eyes. I think many of you have been too far removed from your biology and psychology classes and want to cling to the belief that everybody is the same and it's just a matter of changing your attitude. Yes, to an extent, but men and women are "wired" differently in many respects. Why is it that so many people were especially appalled at seeing that female MP in Iraq engaging in those horrendous acts? It's because it's not considered natural. Women generally don't have the propensity and inclination to violence that men do. How many times do you hear of little groups of girls torturing animals? Not too often. Yet if its a group of boys, then it's not considered unusual. What would the perception be of one of your male collegues if, after being berated by a doctor or fellow collegue, broke down in tears? The honest among you would probably consider this abnormal behaviour. So, why is it so mind-bogglingly hard to accept the fact that, in general, what can be described as "catty" behavior is often present in a female dominated environment? Similiarly, in male dominated environments, there are going to be characteristic behaviors. These are just the facts of life.
I really want to hear the guys here tell us honestly what they see and think we should change about ourselves to work better. I really think it would help. For me, all I ever see the men do around me when something's going sour amongst the women is roll their eyes amongst themselves or quietly crawl in to a corner. Lets hear some hard criticism from the guys...
Or, from some of the women here who have great relationships with their women colleages...
May 11, '04Occupation: PMHNP From: US ; Joined: Dec '03; Posts: 2,918; Likes: 1,546Posted by Monist: Case in point: One flower-patterned or teddy-bear patterned warm up jacket can throw all the educational credit a woman has down the toilet in the eyes of a male HCP.
May 11, '04Occupation: CCU/ICU Specialty: 15 year(s) of experience in CCU/CVU/ICU ; Joined: Jul '03; Posts: 748; Likes: 307so..are we 'wired' differently,..or "socialized' differently? nature-vs-nurture type question i suppose...
I personally think we're getting a wee too deep here...i think it's a matter of individuals and their respective personalities.. (from jerk-*** doctors to jerk-*** nurses to timid-crybaby types to obnoxious dummy -types, etc.). I would favor the 'nurture' argument cause i'm not convinced people are BORN jerk-assess.
However..in regard to Male-vs-female...I HAVE seen perfectly put together women exhibit some mighty strange behavior while PMS'ing (crying and laughing at the same time! for example)...So, i suppose in one sense we cant get away from this obvious difference...
But, i dont think hormone-cycles can be blamed for a person's character.
May 11, '04Joined: Apr '02; Posts: 38,756; Likes: 16,288So we are assuming educated people like nurses cannot over come biology now? Ok then.
May 11, '04Occupation: Haemetology nurse Specialty: Oncology/Haemetology/HIV ; From: US ; Joined: May '02; Posts: 7,040; Likes: 7,483Quote from Jailhouse RNPlease see my post. Some men obviously do hold grudges, to the point that the police/security had to keep an eye on us for several weeks for "our" safety. Again, I have never had the same "problem" with any female coworkers.Bottom line is that men don't hold grudges like women. If I get into it with a male co worker we can still work side by side and by the end of the shift we would buy the other a beer.
Some women hold/or do not hold grudges. It is an individual thing and has more to do with the behavior/agenda held and promoted within the workplace. If you reward or promote bad behavior, it proliferates, If there is no "reward' for bad behavior, it diminishes.
May 11, '04Occupation: Case Manager Specialty: 12 year(s) of experience in Case Manager, LTC,Staff Dev/NAT Instr ; From: US ; Joined: May '04; Posts: 178; Likes: 20Quote by Catcolalex in bb #30}I agree with the Monist, I am always hearing nursing say that "we need to be more united and then we will have a stronger voice and get more respect", after all, nurses have more numbers than any other health care profession. But, how can nurses work together nationally, when they can't even work 100% together in a single unit in a single hospital. I also happen to believe that it is no coincidence that nursing is 95% female and has this issue. men aren't perfect, but we generally don't stab ourselves in the back either.
Are you saying you view all women this way? I have known some men to be backbiters, I agree and disagree with some of the responses Monist and yourself have quoted about women, but it is sad that you have witnessed this behaviour as it appears on all the current posts to be everywhere in the healthcare field and it paints a very vague picture of females.
May 11, '04Occupation: Case Manager Specialty: 12 year(s) of experience in Case Manager, LTC,Staff Dev/NAT Instr ; From: US ; Joined: May '04; Posts: 178; Likes: 20
edited to add smileyLast edit by 1BlessedRN on May 11, '04 : Reason: added smilie to post 47
May 11, '04Joined: Jan '02; Posts: 5,673; Likes: 159Generalizations are dangerous. I could give many examples of quite a few men over the years who were the cattiest and bytchiest nurses around. And my hubby tells me stories about his construction office environment that rival the cattiness that goes on in nursing...and he works with all guys.
May 11, '04Joined: May '04; Posts: 5Quote from MonistI think at least one lady on this bulletin board finally understands the way this world works. The rest of you ladies are clueless, as usual! I have lived my life trying to treat everyone equally so I have adopted the motto, "You can't hit a lady, but you can smack a B*tch!". It has gone a long way to shortening most arguments with women (or men) who don't know how to be polite!I was doing my final preceptorship in an ICU and talking with two male nurses, and this was the conclusion we came to: Men are expected to be competent, unemotional, accountable, and men are taken more seriously because our society is a male dominated society. What I am saying is accepted as much if not more by women than it is by men.
The one thing a man knows down deep is that he either has to kick butt or get his butt kicked. There is mutual respect among men because no one wants to have to fight in the parking garage after work. An MD will never talk down to even a male housekeeper because he knows he may actually get beat up if he does. It hurts to get punched, so we stay on our best behavior with each other. I used to go shooting out in a popular shooting spot in the desert. It was the only place everyone seemed truly polite to one another. It's amazing how mutual assured destruction works even on the microscopic level.
With women, it's a whole 'nother world. All women really have is passive agressiveness, and boy do they use it. They don't have to be on their best behavior with one another like men do. Being polite is only a good idea for them--they don't have to worry about fights as a result of not being polite.
And here's something I've seen on the floor too many times. Female nurses laugh and joke with the male MDs too much. You typically don't see male nurses doing that. Laughing and joking is seen by men as a come-on, and it's hard to respect someone who's coming on to you. It's hard to take them seriously.
It's all BS you say! You're right. It's all unfair? You're right! But we live in a male dominated society (or species, if you will) so, it will always be like this. One truth that male nurses know: when they read articles in nursing magazines or posts that complain about nurses not being treated as "professionals" they know all that will end when there are more males in nursing. And it will only end when there are more males in nursing.
God I ramble.
May 11, '04Joined: Apr '02; Posts: 38,756; Likes: 16,288there is another one for the ignore list. Must be another fly-by troll.
May 11, '04Joined: Apr '00; Posts: 24,611; Likes: 35,448Quote from PJMommythat statement pretty much sums up the whole thing...touche pjmom!The difference? My theory is those people (men or women) who like themselves, are confident and certain of their worth and ability - these are the ones who are easy to get along with.