NP schools now required to find clinical sites?

Miss.Jersey, MSN, APN · Aug 31, 2018

I agree however and somewhat OT but in my opinion, which I know is not shared by many, if said students were seasoned RNs they would have planned and networked to secure sites prior to jumping into a program that they knew didn't provide preceptors. The other benefit from being in the field before 1 pharm course gives us prescribing rights is knowing which providers are good and therefore a person you want to learn from because there is a huge variation in skill set for NPs and also MDs. Just something for future students to consider before coughing up mega bucks regardless of if a school provides preceptors or not.

This is what I'm banking on as I begin applying to PMHNP programs. I accepted a position at a new inpatient Detox and Rehab facility that is part of a larger behavioral health company with many speciality locations.

I'm counting on building a positive reputation and making connections as I progress toward clincal rotations in about 1.5 yr. I am hopeful clinical preceptorship opportunities will be available to me within the company. If possible, I hope to begin being mentored as a counselor on the job while pursuing the degree.

JBMmom, MSN, NP · Sep 2, 2018

I agree however and somewhat OT but in my opinion, which I know is not shared by many, if said students were seasoned RNs they would have planned and networked to secure sites prior to jumping into a program that they knew didn't provide preceptors. The other benefit from being in the field before 1 pharm course gives us prescribing rights is knowing which providers are good and therefore a person you want to learn from because there is a huge variation in skill set for NPs and also MDs. Just something for future students to consider before coughing up mega bucks regardless of if a school provides preceptors or not.

I agree, and I had some preceptors lined up before I enrolled in a school that I knew would not be supplying my clinical rotations. While I would have preferred a brick and mortar program, there were none in my area that would have been able to get me clinical rotations near where I live anyway, so this was my best option.

Spadeforce · Sep 2, 2018

this policy seemed pretty vague in its writing. As if "yeah we are sorta trying to make it sound like we are doing a good thing but you dont really have to guys k" type of deal

Hope they shut down all the schools with no clinical placement. In the end though the fault is on the consumer, who buys a car with no engine then complaints in retrospect?

bryanleo9 · Sep 2, 2018

Back in 2011 RN students were being told that by 2015 we would need doctorate degrees if we wanted to be nurse practitioners. I won't believe this until I see schools changing the practice.

terfernay · Sep 2, 2018

Is this only for CCNE accreditated programs? What about ACEN?

Dodongo, APRN, NP · Sep 2, 2018

Is this only for CCNE accreditated programs? What about ACEN?

Only for CCNE. As if ACEN wasn't already second rate and undesirable.

terfernay · Sep 2, 2018

Only for CCNE. As if ACEN wasn't already second rate and undesirable.

What's the big differences between the two other than this new requirement CCNE is putting out about preceptors?

pro-student · Sep 11, 2018

this policy seemed pretty vague in its writing. As if "yeah we are sorta trying to make it sound like we are doing a good thing but you dont really have to guys k" type of deal
Hope they shut down all the schools with no clinical placement. In the end though the fault is on the consumer, who buys a car with no engine then complaints in retrospect?

This. Don't get too excited there are only minimal changes to the accreditation standard which are vastly overstated on the linked website by the OP. The standard in place and used to accredit schools was:

"Clinical practice experiences are provided for students in all programs, including those with distance education offerings. Clinical practice experiences involve activities that are designed to ensure students are competent to enter nursing practice at the level indicated by the degree/certificate program." III-E (2013)

This certainly didn't mean that schools arranged clinicals for all students (including distance) much less in accessible ways. I went to a top-ranked program and they literally told us they considered a 2.5 hour commute (one way) reasonable for clinical sites. Not only that, but at least one semester you would be expected to take a clinical site beyond this "commuting distance" and still be required to be on campus so would likely need "redundant housing." At that wasn't even distance students.

My point is, CCNE had already made clear that by "provided for students" they include all the drastic measures students are taking to get clinical sites now. There literally is no mechanism for them to address those students who never find clinical placements because the accreditation reviews are based on students who are in clinical settings and not those who had to drop out or late a leave of absence. The use of the passive voice "are provided" lacks any specificity for who is responsible. This language allows the school to claim that the student is the one who is to provide the clinical site. The reference to distance programs simply means that clinicals must be equally required of distance and B&M students but not that schools are responsible for arranging either.

Believe it or not, the new standard is actually more watered down that the previous one. Starting in January 2019 it changes to:

"Clinical practice experiences are provided for students in all programs, including those with distance education offerings. Clinical practice experiences align with student and program outcomes." III-H (2018)

They removed the requirement that clinical practice experience be structured for students to achieve competence but only that the align with program outcomes and are competent to function a part of interdisciplinary teams. Don't buy into the hype. The CCNE has only placated those who spoke out with hollow promises while making it easier for schools to churn out graduated will lower quality experience and enroll more students who likely will never see a diploma.

umbdude, MSN, APRN · Sep 11, 2018

Believe it or not, the new standard is actually more watered down that the previous one. Starting in January 2019 it changes to:
"Clinical practice experiences are provided for students in all programs, including those with distance education offerings. Clinical practice experiences align with student and program outcomes." III-H (2018)

The pertinent change is in II-B:

"The program is responsible for ensuring adequate physical resources and clinical sites. Clinical sites are sufficient, appropriate, and available to achieve the program's mission, goals, and expected outcomes."

It is a requirement that is confirmed by AACN. However, it is up to the students to file complaints if a school cannot secure a clinical placement site, considering that the student is able to travel to the location assigned by the school. Students can still find their own preceptors. Complaints are reviewed and will affect the school's future accreditation.

AACN and ACEN are recognized by US Department of Education to provide educational accreditation. If AACN and ACEN aren't holding up their own standards, file a complaint to USDE against them.

If students stay silent. Nothing will change.

pro-student · Sep 11, 2018

The pertinent change is in II-B:
"The program is responsible for ensuring adequate physical resources and clinical sites. Clinical sites are sufficient, appropriate, and available to achieve the program's mission, goals, and expected outcomes."
It is a requirement that is confirmed by AACN. However, it is up to the students to file complaints if a school cannot secure a clinical placement site, considering that the student is able to travel to the location assigned by the school. Students can still find their own preceptors. Complaints are reviewed and will affect the school's future accreditation.
AACN and ACEN are recognized by US Department of Education to provide educational accreditation. If AACN and ACEN aren't holding up their own standards, file a complaint to USDE against them.
If students stay silent. Nothing will change.

"Ensuring" a clinical site is different from providing a clinical site. A program could readily claim to ensure clinical sites by only allowing students who have organized their own to continue in the program. That's might be why the documents reviewed under Section II would not indicate schools had arranged sites since all items demonstrating compliance with clinical requirements are under Section III which, as I stated, doesn't specify the onus is on the school to provide site.

Do you have any source for this support this? It seems pretty thin for such a significant change. AACN has not updated its public resources about clinicals for APRN programs to indicate any change much less their support of it. Also, if CCNE was so committed to this change, why not use that language throughout the accreditation standards? Why not publicize this effort to beef up nursing education?

Sure you can file a complaint but it's likely to be filed in the trash unless there is any grounds for it. And there's scant, if any, evidence that there is an obligation you are claiming. I hope there is a change and it certainly is necessary but it doesn't seem like the governing bodies are on board.

bryanleo9 · Sep 11, 2018

"ensuring clinical sites" = providing students with a list of medical clinics that the students get to cold call and beg to precept them for free. Nothing will change.

NICUmiiki, DNP, NP · Sep 11, 2018

My school is up for reaccreditation in 2019 with their site visit now. They started providing clinical placements for all of their NP programs this year (they already provided placement for their NNP and acute care programs).

I'm just now realizing their motives, but the primary care students told us over the summer that they started doing it all nonchalantly like it was NBD.