NP schools now required to find clinical sites?

NICUmiiki, DNP, NP · Sep 12, 2018

"ensuring clinical sites" = providing students with a list of medical clinics that the students get to cold call and beg to precept them for free. Nothing will change.

I think the wording is a little more specific than that, but I foresee angry students when a national online school says "you can look for your own OR use this preceptor we've already set up that's 2 hours away."

umbdude, MSN, APRN · Sep 12, 2018

"Ensuring" a clinical site is different from providing a clinical site. A program could readily claim to ensure clinical sites by only allowing students who have organized their own to continue in the program. That's might be why the documents reviewed under Section II would not indicate schools had arranged sites since all items demonstrating compliance with clinical requirements are under Section III which, as I stated, doesn't specify the onus is on the school to provide site.

It's okay to be skeptical and I encourage that you ask AACN for clarification if you like. However, I recommend that you read about the entire process (check out Sawyer Initiative) that occurred, which brought about this change, and read the new requirement in an overall context rather than just picking out and scrutinizing individual words.

pro-student · Sep 12, 2018

It's okay to be skeptical and I encourage that you ask AACN for clarification if you like. However, I recommend that you read about the entire process (check out Sawyer Initiative) that occurred, which brought about this change, and read the new requirement in an overall context rather than just picking out and scrutinizing individual words.

I have which is why I think they have chosen to placate critics rather than make any meaningful changes. You can call it nitpicking, I call it reading critically. When it comes down to it, actually making accreditation decisions or responding to complaints filed by students, what do you think is going to matter? Maybe I'm wrong. But the change you're suggesting would disrupt the education system in a big way and hasn't even made waves.

allnurses Guide · Sep 12, 2018

I got an email from the program I precept for that is up for re-accreditation in 2019; they already provide clinical placements for students but they are gathering additional information from clinical faculty for the accreditation process. It's a good sign for sure.

allnurses Guide · Sep 12, 2018

I think the wording is a little more specific than that, but I foresee angry students when a national online school says "you can look for your own OR use this preceptor we've already set up that's 2 hours away."

Who cares if some students are angry?

Students can either take the site 2 hours a way or drop out. It's not my (or the schools') problem if it is inconvenient for the student.

EDIT: FWIW, the program I went to (which is a top program that did and still does secure all the clinical spots for students) told every student that they needed to be able to commute up to 2 hours in any direction for clinicals. I had one site that was 60 minutes south and another that was 50 minutes north. They were both fantastic placements and I had zero complaints about it nor did any of my classmates. I've had a student I precepted that rode the train for more than an hour and half each way plus a $20 uber ride each way every clinic day; she had no complaints.

Dodongo, APRN, NP · Sep 12, 2018

Who cares if some students are angry?
Students can either take the site 2 hours a way or drop out. It's not my (or the schools') problem if it is inconvenient for the student.

Exactly. Convenience shouldn't matter. Not everyone should get to be a NP just because they want to be.

NICUmiiki, DNP, NP · Sep 12, 2018

Who cares if some students are angry?
Students can either take the site 2 hours a way or drop out. It's not my (or the schools') problem if it is inconvenient for the student.
EDIT: FWIW, the program I went to (which is a top program that did and still does secure all the clinical spots for students) told every student that they needed to be able to commute up to 2 hours in any direction for clinicals. I had one site that was 60 minutes south and another that was 50 minutes north. They were both fantastic placements and I had zero complaints about it nor did any of my classmates. I've had a student I precepted that rode the train for more than an hour and half each way plus a $20 uber ride each way every clinic day; she had no complaints.

I didn't say I cared. I'm saying get ready for new kinds of complaint threads to pop up.

I hope this works to cut out factory FNP schools, increase the quality of NP education, and remove a quality of NP education (finding your own preceptor) that is downright embarrassing for the profession.

NICUmiiki, DNP, NP · Sep 12, 2018

It may also help boost the number of NPs willing to precept. Instead of preceptors being bombarded with 5000 students from local school A and B and Online schools C-Z begging for placement, they'd work with a couple of clinical placement coordinators from the schools an can just tell them the number of students they can take when. The students don't know whether the provider already has students booked.

Dodongo, APRN, NP · Sep 12, 2018

I didn't say I cared. I'm saying get ready for new kinds of complaint threads to pop up.

Nothing would make me happier than to see poorly qualified applicants complaining because they can't just become an NP whenever they want. I will comment on every single one of those threads.

Spadeforce · Sep 14, 2018

Even in med school we have to drive a distance to some of our rotations, but I think my furthest is 45 mins. The schools should help keep students close but yeah some driving is going to be unavoidable

To stay in context with the rest of the thread, if somebody is dumb enough to go to a school that does not provide clinical sites then I dont feel bad for them.

Even in med school some of our clinical sites may not be the best but we have to be placed or the school gets put on probation and the student can sue.

My FNP program provided sites but I only used 1/3 since I set up my own closer to home with the docs I worked with as a nurse. It also gets me by surprise when people work as a nurse for 5-10 years and literally have no physicians on their "precept list". Do you not even talk to docs at work, try to network, or take ANY initiative prior to starting the program?

Dodongo, APRN, NP · Sep 14, 2018

Even in med school we have to drive a distance to some of our rotations, but I think my furthest is 45 mins. The schools should help keep students close but yeah some driving is going to be unavoidable
To stay in context with the rest of the thread, if somebody is dumb enough to go to a school that does not provide clinical sites then I dont feel bad for them.
Even in med school some of our clinical sites may not be the best but we have to be placed or the school gets put on probation and the student can sue.
My FNP program provided sites but I only used 1/3 since I set up my own closer to home with the docs I worked with as a nurse. It also gets me by surprise when people work as a nurse for 5-10 years and literally have no physicians on their "precept list". Do you not even talk to docs at work, try to network, or take ANY initiative prior to starting the program?

You have to remember that for most nurses pursuing NP, convenience is their ultimate concern. They aren't looking for a challenge. They aren't concerned with actually learning or mastering medicine. They expect a lot for very little. They aren't interested in making sacrifices. So they'd rather sit out or drop out if they were expected to do clinical full time or drive a distance to clinical. Very different mind set to medical students and even PA students.

NICUmiiki, DNP, NP · Sep 14, 2018

Even in med school we have to drive a distance to some of our rotations, but I think my furthest is 45 mins. The schools should help keep students close but yeah some driving is going to be unavoidable
To stay in context with the rest of the thread, if somebody is dumb enough to go to a school that does not provide clinical sites then I dont feel bad for them.
Even in med school some of our clinical sites may not be the best but we have to be placed or the school gets put on probation and the student can sue.
My FNP program provided sites but I only used 1/3 since I set up my own closer to home with the docs I worked with as a nurse. It also gets me by surprise when people work as a nurse for 5-10 years and literally have no physicians on their "precept list". Do you not even talk to docs at work, try to network, or take ANY initiative prior to starting the program?

I started in FNP then switched to NNP. The school I started the FNP program requires you to set up your own preceptor. I started the search, but I never actually got to clinicals before I switched schools (new school provides preceptors for all of its programs).

My background is in the NICU. I rarely have contact with the OBGYNs, and we couldn't use the pediatric specialists that I do actually have contact with. So no, I didn't have a list before I started, and others I knew found their preceptors in their 1-1.5 years of core courses.

I hated looking, but that's a moot point for me now.