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Hey guys!!
I was reading a few threads on 'customer service' running amok, and wanted to share how things owrk at my current clinic. I swear, if all places would impart these rules/guidelines, the world of nursing would be so much better to work in.
First, I work in a general medicine clinic. My collaborating doc is well known for treating pain, but we are NOT a pain clinic. The patients get schooled on this at the first office visit, if not before. My OM, (the doc's daughter) is a gem, she is PHENOMENAL! She (well, all of us, really) has a zero-tolerance policy for bull, and once you're on her list, you're on it.
*We don't tolerate abuse. Period. If you come in and raise sand, you're out. Dismissed from the practice as a patient. If you have a friend or family member come in and raise sand for you, you're still out. If you bring a friend to your office visit, and that friend steals someone's wallet in the waiting room, you're still out. You brought them.
*We talk to each other. Actually had one lady tell me when I was new that the doc always gave her extra meds "in case she had a bad day". When I baked and said I'd have to verify that, she proceeded to tell me that our MA knew how to call them in, and no, he didn't write down the extra pills, just added them in when the script was called to the pharmacy. So, staff-splitting does NOT work.
*Behavior really does count. We have a 200-person strong waiting list to be a patient here. I databased it myself, from a tattered little book. Every time someone calls or comes by to ask where they are on the list, I can tell with a click of a mouse. People who come in and flip an attitude or demand to be seen immediately either get bumped to the bottom of the list, or taken off of it altogether. Posted a story relating to THAT on my other thread about things you'd love to tell patients. We even drew up a memo detailing the rules, that we hand out when someone comes by to add their name. For the ones that phone their order in, I call personally and explain the details.
* We keep records. Since we do prescribe controlled substances, if we hear or see that a patient has been arrested for DUI, selling, possession, or other offenses, we dismiss. If we get a call that someone is selling, we dismiss. If someone fails a drug screen, we dismiss. We have a closet full of dismissed charts, all carefully organized and databased (I love my computer) with names, reasons for dismissal, etc. You'd be amazed at what people will try to sneak back in. Different hair, different NAME, fit-throwing, wheedling, threats, etc. This souldn't be a surprise. All our patients are required to sign a behavior contract when they come to the clinic, that clearly states what comprises grounds for dismissal.
We have no doorknob leading from the lobby to the clinic proper. It was removed. We had people coming in without permission for 'sidewalk consults', demanding pain shots, and one lovely lady who proceeded to stand there, even though it was quite obvious that my OM was on the phone, shaking her pill bottle in her face and screaming, "WHERE are my %^&* refills?!?!?" Yep, bye-bye, sweetie!
We have a medication policy, as we call all prescriptions in. The meds are guaranteed by a certain time, period. No, you don't get an early call in without a darn good reason, and some people get REALLY creative. No problem, they get moved to the bottom of the pile. Every time they come back in (some of these people must LIVE at the pharmacy) wanting to know why they haven't gotten their meds yet, to the bottom they go. May sound mean, but they get the point after a while.
Point being, we just DO NOT reward bad behavior. There's no sense in it. Sure, we may lose a patient here and there that doesn't want to comply with the rules, but there are dozens ready to fill their spot in the chart rack. We're not outright mean, we just refuse to take abuse lying down.
So, my question...if it works for us, why on Earth can hospitals and other places make it work, too? Set policies and adhere to them, that's really all it is. Why is this phenomenon so difficult to replicate? They sure don't care to policy the staff to death, so I know it's not that. Why not go in the other direction?
I just wanted to share my experience. One time I was having on-going severe abdominal pain and nausea. I went to Urgent Care and was released home after some tests. Was given some medicine. Felt a bit better but soon the pain and nausea returned as an intermittent problem. My primary MD was on maternity leave, so I had to make an appointment with another doctor at another clinic in order to be seen in the next week.
The day of my appointment there was a blizzard so I left early. I had to make a 35 minute trip in the middle of a snowstorm and almost crashed my car. I showed up 5 minutes late and very shaken. I explained this to the receptionist and was taken to a room.
The nurse was very kind to me but then the doctor barged in. He told me he may not have enough time for me because he had other patients on time and since I was late, he would only do what he had time for. He was very rude to me and unpleasant. It was an awful experience at a time when I was in a lot of pain and discomfort.
The point is that sometimes patients are down right rude, selfish, and careless. But sometimes things happen that are out of patient's control. I urge you to try to show some compassion or understanding before labeling patients as troublemakers.
From the original post, it sounds like a normal person having a bad day could get shoved to the bottom of a pile. I sometimes don't understand something the first time I am told, particularly if I am in pain, and I got the distinct impression that because your doctor is so awesome, and your office is so organized, if I didn't understand, and asked a question, I could be considered a troublemaker, especially if maybe I wasn't as polite as you thought I should be. Seriously, might want to read up on control issues. I used to think control was great until i found out what I was missing by actually listening to people that thought differently than I.
If it took this kind of "care" to cure anything wrong with me, and bear in mind, I hate, despise and can't tolerate whiney co-dependency, I would seriously rather be sick.
Human beings make mistakes, and even human bodies make mistakes and negative reinforcement doesn't always cure that.
I've been in nursing for almost 40 years, and I have forgotten to call in prescriptions once or twice, and I have been a patient often enough to have been on the forgotten end of things. I am not drug seeking, I have never lost a bottle of pills or called for an early refill on anything, but I am getting older and someday I will make a mistake.
Do you like any of your patients? Even as patients, not as humans?
ST
Yep, I do. Quite a few of them, actually. We're not talking about forgetting or asking questions. We're talking about yelling, pounding on the glass, fit-pitching. We're talking about upwards of 5 phonecalls a day, usually with language that would make a sailor blush. Those patients, no, I don't particularly care for. But they get the best care I can give, until they're gone from the clinic.
And even when we do dismiss, we provide a months worth of controls, and 6 months of maitenance meds, until they can find another doc.
For those expressing distress at the rules of the OPs practice ... how would you propose dealing with drug-seeking behaviors? Especially considering that enabling those behaviors just strengthens them as well as potentially placing the practitioners in a pretty serious legal situation.It sucks that people with chronic pain should have to be subjected to those same rules ... but just how is the practitioner supposed to differentiate?
Would love to hear some ideas.
It actually wouldn't be that hard to differentiate....given some time, the "drug-seekers" will emerge from the pack, because they can't stop themselves (be it frequent calls for early refills, "my pills fell in the toilet," failing drug screens, whatever). It sounds like you are saying that all patients with chronic pain/on controlled meds should be treated as seekers until proven otherwise........THAT is not fair.
We do. We're really close with the local police in the surrounding counties, and locally too. Mightn't someone be falsely accused of selling? Sure. But we remove ourselves from the situation anyway, simply because where there's smoke, fire usually isn't very far behind.
Be careful with this thought.....I always thought the same thing (and truly, still generally do) until I had a serious accusation made against ME (not in terms of law enforcement) and despite my efforts to prove otherwise, I still wasn't believed. It's devastating, to know you are telling someone the truth and it is falling on deaf ears. I know that situation is in the minority, but it DOES happen.
From the original post, it sounds like a normal person having a bad day could get shoved to the bottom of a pile. I sometimes don't understand something the first time I am told, particularly if I am in pain, and I got the distinct impression that because your doctor is so awesome, and your office is so organized, if I didn't understand, and asked a question, I could be considered a troublemaker, especially if maybe I wasn't as polite as you thought I should be. Seriously, might want to read up on control issues. I used to think control was great until i found out what I was missing by actually listening to people that thought differently than I.If it took this kind of "care" to cure anything wrong with me, and bear in mind, I hate, despise and can't tolerate whiney co-dependency, I would seriously rather be sick.
Human beings make mistakes, and even human bodies make mistakes and negative reinforcement doesn't always cure that.
I've been in nursing for almost 40 years, and I have forgotten to call in prescriptions once or twice, and I have been a patient often enough to have been on the forgotten end of things. I am not drug seeking, I have never lost a bottle of pills or called for an early refill on anything, but I am getting older and someday I will make a mistake.
Do you like any of your patients? Even as patients, not as humans?
ST
Normal people having a bad day aren't abusive. They don't threaten to shoot you in the face. They don't slam their fists into the counter, put their hands on you, bang on the windows, or break equipment.
If that's considered normal behavior from a normal person having a "bad day" by you, then, well, I don't know what to say.
Sometimes people who are having a "bad day" are testy or short or terse. They aren't abusive, they don't harass, and they don't threaten. If they do any of those things then they should be removed. There's simply no excuse for that kind of behavior.
At your clinic, OP, when a patient is physically abusive or threatening physical attack, who does the "removing?" Do you have security guards, or do you call the police and have the patient arrested?
And, if you don't mind me asking again, have you all had an attorney take a look at the behavior contract that your clients sign? I'm curious about that.
(This is a VERY interesting thread! Thanks for getting it started, OP.)
It actually wouldn't be that hard to differentiate....given some time, the "drug-seekers" will emerge from the pack, because they can't stop themselves (be it frequent calls for early refills, "my pills fell in the toilet," failing drug screens, whatever). It sounds like you are saying that all patients with chronic pain/on controlled meds should be treated as seekers until proven otherwise........THAT is not fair.
Read my posts again ... just like you, I focused on behaviors, not identity, diagnosis, or the content of their medication list. My comment was meant to acknowledge that sometimes, when non-addicted people display behaviors that resemble drug-seeking, they'll get lumped into that basket. They also get subjected all the same rules and regs: limits on scripts, frequent drug screens, contracts, etc. and it sucks that they have to jump through those hoops.
It is behavior that is addressed by the OP ... abusive, manipulative or otherwise unacceptable behavior. Having a chronic illness does not give you a free pass to behave abusively.
Somehow some people here are upset with this thread? Give me a break. Wait till you do this job a few more years and years and you will get tough. If a person is demented, I do not get upset with them because it is the disease. I try to keep them calm and feel safe. If it is a patient who is plain mean, nasty, rude, well I try to ignore them after I have tried several times to placate them. When they continue to be rude and and tell me what to do I just stand there and say "what is the magic word"? I have been "fired" by patients and every one of those patients I was grateful for being fired. I have been spit on, bitten, kicked, and pulled. People this is not about compassion when it comes to these types of patients. They get second and third chances and then enough is enough. If they tell me they want to report me, I show them my badge and ask them to write it down. I am a good compassionate nurse who refuses to be bullied anymore. Maybe if these patients were paying this out of their own pockets it would be different. And come to think of it, some of the worst patients are the ones who have NO insurance and getting it all for free, or rather from us who are working.
Read my posts again ... just like you, I focused on behaviors, not identity, diagnosis, or the content of their medication list. My comment was meant to acknowledge that sometimes, when non-addicted people display behaviors that resemble drug-seeking, they'll get lumped into that basket. They also get subjected all the same rules and regs: limits on scripts, frequent drug screens, contracts, etc. and it sucks that they have to jump through those hoops.It is behavior that is addressed by the OP ... abusive, manipulative or otherwise unacceptable behavior. Having a chronic illness does not give you a free pass to behave abusively.
I did read your posts. I responded to the statement the I bolded. You asked how the staff/clinic is supposed to differentiate between drug seeking patients and patients in chronic pain. It's not that hard.
I agree on the issue of behavior, that is exactly my point. The behavior of patients is what differentiates one from the other.
Yep, I do. Quite a few of them, actually. We're not talking about forgetting or asking questions. We're talking about yelling, pounding on the glass, fit-pitching. We're talking about upwards of 5 phonecalls a day, usually with language that would make a sailor blush. Those patients, no, I don't particularly care for. But they get the best care I can give, until they're gone from the clinic.And even when we do dismiss, we provide a months worth of controls, and 6 months of maitenance meds, until they can find another doc.
and when i said some were blowing things out of context, you didn't agree.
big, fat *neener* to you, angel my friend.
leslie;)
dbscandy
116 Posts
Bows to you and your clinic!!!
The reason hosps and clinics are not run this way is because everybody is so infected by 'customer service' that good staff AND patients end up on the short end.
If every institution gave forewarning and stuck to their guns, we could all work in a less stressful environment, and I think patients would get better care.