NCLEX- how many attempts is too many?

ixchel · Feb 15, 2015

Exactly. Not everyone is a "winner". Not everyone is meant to "do anything they want to do for a living".

What's complicated is that those of us raised by baby boomers were told we could be anything we want when we grow up. Now we're confused about what to tell our own kids.

The people in gen X with kids much older than mine probably hadn't figured out quite yet that that's not a good lesson to instill without some disclaimers. Now we have millennials all raised like special snowflakes, so not only can they be whatever they want to be when they grow up, they are ENTITLED to it. Hopefully their disappointment helps them tailor their message a bit to their own kids.

I, myself, was a gen X kid who was told as long as I go to college, I could be whatever I wanted. It's kind of a blessing I had no idea what I wanted, because when I finally figured it out, I had the maturity in place to know I may or may not succeed.

Anyway, climbing off my soap box now.....

I think 3 failures, remediation, two failures, remediation, and if you still fail that 6th time, you're done. If 6 works for the doctors, it could work for us, too.

Tenebrae, BSN, RN · Feb 15, 2015

I think twice. Test anxiety sure, however how does one get to the end of their program and pass goodness knows how many tests and then freeze so badly they need to take the test four-five times. If a persons course of study does not give them the tools they need to be pass NCLEX then serious questions should be asked of that persons school

We had to have our schools sign off prior to sitting state finals. Our year had a 100% pass rate, the two years before us and the two years after my year also had a 100% pass rate. Our course prepared us well to sit states and pass first time around including a week of state final study prep and had one book recommended which cost $20 bucks, none of these expensive exam study aids needed

Tenebrae, BSN, RN · Feb 15, 2015

We sit our exam at the end of our final term of study. I think we got a weeks structured study review and then another week of individual study.

We are told 6 weeks for results however its usually closer to 3

And it's ok with you that they'll be taking care of your mom or your child? Ummm, no.

Can't pass the minimum competency for being a nurse within three months of ending your education -- after which it's reasonable to expect that your memory of what you learned is decreased? Then go back to school or decide your school made a mistake with you (it happens), and go do something else.

Farawyn · Feb 15, 2015

We say we are professionals and want to be taken seriously?

3.

rzyzzy · Feb 15, 2015

I passed my first try, but I PROMISED myself that if I failed, I would take a remedial class before my second try. In my state if you fail twice, you have to physically appear before a committee of the BON and convince them why you should be given a third attempt. Then fail 3 times and you are out. In my opinion that may be a bit harsh, but harsh or not there is currently nothing to stop a 3x failure from merely going to a state where there are unlimited attempts and taking it again. I think that there should be a national standard so that hopping around from state to state just simply will not work anymore!!
Once that is established, the rest should be easy to figure out. The first attempt is a failure for a ton of people due to different reasons that have nothing to do with safety as a nurse such as test anxiety, failure to do a prep course because they really didn't think they needed it, studying wrong, their school not preparing them correctly so that they don't know what to expect, etc. So in my opinion a second try is legitimate. After that, I think a remedial course should be mandatory and after the 3rd try you just stop.
As another poster said, we are naval gazing, but one thing that could force them to establish standards would be if people were mandated to tell a hiring body how many attempts it took to pass. Perhaps that information should even show up on a license. If HR refused to hire people who failed 3 or more times then there would be no reason to test into infinity and beyond. This approach would also do a lot to reduce the glut of nurses looking for a job!
I also think that schools that have low pass rates should be forced to either change their program or shut down. In my state the NCLEX pass rates that were recently released showed 4 schools with pass rates below 70% and 1 of those was 50%. These schools aren't producing success stories, so why are they allowed to exist?
As for the comment that these are cash cows for PVT, they are! But BONs have the final say on everything so it shouldn't be THAT difficult to make it stop!
I also think that whether you never failed or failed an infinite number of times, if you get a job and prove to be unsafe in practice to the point your employer reports an incident to the BON, you should be mandated to take a remedial course. The NCLEX is supposed to test safety, but given the nature of the test, in my opinion it doesn't do a great job of it and there are nurses who prove consistently they are unsafe, yet are allowed to continue to practice.

You're assuming the nclex is "perfect", and your other comments about *any* complaint to the board of nursing triggering mandatory training show that you don't understand how things work in the real world.

There's a huge difference between a complaint being filed and a finding of actual wrongdoing. Employers often use threats of complaints against nurses to force nurses to continue unsafe practices (like taking more patients than a nurse can actually handle).

Nursing school prepares you for getting a license (and passing the nclex). The nurses you work with at your first job teach you how to actually be a nurse.

theradiantforce · Feb 15, 2015

I also think three times and you're out is a good idea. There should be serious remediation at two attempts. When I see posts about people failing 5+ times, I always think, "really?!"

Regardless of anyone's opinion, nursing is SERIOUS BUSINESS! We are making decisions and performing acts that have a DIRECT impact on another soul's life so it is imperative we know what we are doing. The NCLEX is not perfect, however, it is the minimum competency exam that decides whether or not a person is safe to practice at a basic level of nursing. If a person can't pass the exam after three tries, I really do believe that they should be ineligible to practice nursing. It may sound harsh but, if you can't focus and study and remove your test anxiety in a quiet, controlled environment then what's going to happen when you have a chaotic life or death situation?

As for why people don't pass, I honestly think it has a lot less to do with test anxiety and more to do with reading comprehension. Let's face facts, the NCLEX uses language that is complex and round-about. They could definitely use plainer wording but, they don't. If a person has a poor grasp of English or reading comprehension, then odds are they aren't going to be able to break down the questions in order to answer correctly because they may not understand some of the terms/word context. I know a couple of people who did not pass on their first attempts and I must admit that at least two of them have poor reading skills. If a person struggles with difficult reading material it is near impossible to break down a question and decipher what is being asked.

npham82, BSN, RN · Feb 15, 2015

I'm not going to state if I agree or disagree. I will say that I like the idea of 3x attempts before mandatory refresher course like FL. I wouldn't state they could never take it again. If a person was given the same exam with the same questions 3x and continues to fail, I would suggest that NCLEX would be difficult if they continued to fail but since questions are random and it's almost impossible for someone to have the exact same exam, if they pass and it takes whatever amount of attempts, then they finally were considered competent to become a novice nurse. We all do not think alike and will not always pass on the first time. If they struggled and finally passed, that means they finally became competent to be a nurse. I do not think of it as how many attempts but the fact they passed. They didn't get the same exam over and over.

Also, this thread is a repeat from the other one. Not sure why it needed to be repeated besides to create drama.

dinah77, ADN · Feb 15, 2015

So one of my biggest issues with endless NCLEX attemmpts is this:

When I was in nursing school, I worked as a tutor- occassionally, I had students come in that I would think "Dear lord, I would not want this person caring for a member of my family" (to be clear, these were always the ones who were lazy and never studied, but wanted me to tell them basically just how to pass the tests)

to which others would respond "Even IF they somehow make it through the program, don't worry, they will not pass the NCLEX!"

So to me, it is a type of safety, gatekeeping. Isn't that removed if we allow someone endless attempts?

PacoUSA, BSN, RN · Feb 15, 2015

I have a few ideas:

If the BONs want to make money off of retakers, why not charge more for each retake? Deterrent for some to pass on first try I think.

Also, there should be a national cap on retaking the exam. Once you reach the limit in one state, no going to another state to retake. National block!

Seriously, I must repeat. If you can't hack the anxiety of NCLEX, I don't see how you can hack the anxiety of nursing on the hospital floor.

Fruit Sucker · Feb 15, 2015

A lot of schools just take your money and can care less if you pass . My school give us ATI books without even explaining how to use them or how to ask nclex questions. I want to pass but it's hard ...nobody has explain how this test was going to be...now it's up to me to make it work...

I'm not trying to single you out, but to me this sums up the problem and the reason why there should be a maximum number of attempts. Nobody should have to explain to you how to use a book or how to study. I found in school there were way too many people blaming the professors for "not explaining things well enough" while those of us who were making A's just went home and studied our books and did the work. I not only studied my course textbooks, but purchased additional books and materials and subscribed to nursing journals. If a person is not motivated to do these things on their own and pass a MINIMUM competency test, then how can they be expected to be self-motivated when they are on the job?

Fruit Sucker · Feb 15, 2015

We say we are professionals and want to be taken seriously?
3.

THIS.

I feel employers should do their due diligence in finding out how many attempts a potential employee took. I don't cotton to the idea of being treated like equals with someone who barely graduated school with a B- average and took six times to pass boards. Like someone else mentioned, every profession isn't for everybody.

Meriwhen, ASN, BSN, MSN, RN · Feb 15, 2015

I would give someone two attempts before requiring remediation. Someone failing the first time could easily be due to nerves or testing anxiety. But if a person fails twice, then there is a serious knowledge deficit that needs to be remedied. They would have to take an approved remediation course before they could try the test again.

After that remediation, they can have two more attempts (yes, I'm being a little generous). If they fail twice more, then I'm sorry but there's no more chances: nursing is apparently not the career for them because they are just not getting it.