My manager lies, lies, lies

Pediatric Critical Care Columnist · Mar 18, 2009

What kind of country allows people to be fired for having a legitimate health problem that will resolve with time? After all, even the highest-risk pregnancy ends eventually.

I'm very sorry for your friend and for the rest of you too. Having a management set-up like that makes it very hard to love your work. (Voice of experience.) Is there some way you can catch this guy in his lies and leave him no way out of it? It's too late for your friend but it's not too late for the rest of you.

caliotter3 · Mar 18, 2009

If your workplace is that agreeable except for him, I wouldn't look for a new employer just because of his behavior. Just continue to do what you and your coworkers have been doing. Compare notes and don't let him get one over on you. Don't give him any reason to get at you. Develop a united front with your coworkers and you can thwart anything he does to hurt your employment. Sorry to hear what is happening to your friend. Many employers will do this to their employees, but then others do not. Hope that her delivery goes well.

squeakykitty · Mar 18, 2009

Can the lies be documented for later reporting to the higher-ups? I hate lying vindictive bosses or co-workers.

Straydandelion · Mar 18, 2009

If your workplace is that agreeable except for him, I wouldn't look for a new employer just because of his behavior. Just continue to do what you and your coworkers have been doing. Compare notes and don't let him get one over on you. Don't give him any reason to get at you. Develop a united front with your coworkers and you can thwart anything he does to hurt your employment. Sorry to hear what is happening to your friend. Many employers will do this to their employees, but then others do not. Hope that her delivery goes well.

I agree and be sure to document ANY problems arising. It doesn't hurt to look at transfer options, doesn't mean you actually have to transfer. As far as your co-worker is concerned I am assuming she has exhausted her sick days/vacation etc also..yet might want to look up the regs for FMLA anyway. It is good that all your co-workers are in agreement at least or the manager could cause a LOT of problems. IMHO one day, he will be caught.

"Leave Policies

Employer leave policies are an important area of accommodation for seriously ill employees. The Family and Medical Leave Act (FMLA) requires employers (with more than 50 employees) to provide eligible workers with up to 12 weeks of unpaid leave each year for certain personal circumstances, including the illnesses of employees and their families. Nearly half of employer respondents indicate they have a leave policy for serious illness more generous than that required under FMLA. However, of those who do not have a leave policy more generous than FMLA, none of those indicate that a more generous policy is under consideration.

Employees may be required to exhaust accrued paid leave in the form of sick days, vacation days and paid time off banks before beginning to count the 12 weeks of FMLA. One third of the respondents indicated that use of accrued paid leave was required before the start of FMLA ."

girtster · Mar 18, 2009

Wouldn't you think this would fall under FMLA guidelines? Quite frankly a manager does not have the right to terminate someone for this reason.

SummerGarden, BSN, MSN, RN · Mar 18, 2009

95% of the time, we find out it is "kind of" true, but with his own twist on it. (for example, if you forget to do a paper on admission packet, it becomes you don't do your work.) the other 5% have been outright lies.

i had this boss in my former life of social services!!! he was a director that maintained order through making co-workers divisive!!! mine actually got away with it because unlike your group, people quit or transferred (act of god but they did it..) and so friendships were fleeting.

tells his boss he puts in 60-70 hour work weeks (yeah right) and too many others.

yeah, mine was so bad he was not there most of the week... i initially thought he was working (attending meetings... going to places to affect the department in major ways...etc.) but, no! he was traveling between his two homes (the company paid for two homes outright) and spending much of his time hanging out with family and friends... while we worked and sacrificed like dogs!

i hate him, i mean really, truely completely hate this man.

me too... i hate him to this day and i have not had the misfortune of working under him for 5 years now and i have a new career!! i think it is because he was in a position of authority (my executive director) that it bothers me that he was a liar... maybe if he was smaller on the food chain or someone with not as much power i would not have cared as much because he would not have had my career and reputation in his hands?

i keep hoping his lies are going to catch up to him, but his boss loves him.

nope... not until the little people speak with his/her feet will someone like your boss lose a job. the reason people like that stay in their position is because the little people are good workers... for some odd reason, employee performance is directly related to management performance in some places. in other places employee satisfaction and other realistic measures are used.

i know you can't help. i know i should leave. (did i mention my fantastic co-workers, who i love?)

you need to leave if you can... it is not worth working in such an environment... the stress alone will eat away at you... besides, you can keep in touch with your co-workers. the office place is not the only place you can meet.

anyway, i am just thinking about my sweet co-worker at home trying to maintain her pregnancy for another month and now worried about her job.

have you considered that you may be next???? i used to think that each day could be my last with the horrible management style of my former boss. my biggest mistake at the time was needing my job so much i put up with him and others like him.... after another poor boss, similar to him, i decided to no longer give that kind of power to an employer. i work two jobs and will always work at least two jobs until i retire... this way no one employer will scare me into putting up with garbage and lies. ironically, my current employers are very good to me and my co-workers.

It'sMe, RN, BBA, MBA · Mar 18, 2009

We have a wonderful nurse who has been out over 12 weeks on high risk pregnancy. We have been covering her shift with per diem nurses. NOT OVERTIME. He called her while she was at the hospital and told her that he would not be able to hold her postion any longer. Now, I know that is his right to do that (although ethical, moral? Eh, I don't think so.) He posted her position THAT DAY, then when people start complaining to him he tells her co-workers that she made the decision to go per diem. WTH? Did he think that nobody would find out? I mean, if your going to do such a crappy thing to someone at least man up and be honest.
He has also been caught in many other lies by staff. He has even told some of us things that other nurses say, just to start trouble. Thing about it is, we all know his game and rather than get po'd with each other we TALK and compare notes. 95% of the time, we find out it is "kind of" true, but with his own twist on it. (For example, if you forget to do a paper on admission packet, it becomes you don't do your work.) The other 5% have been outright lies. Tells his boss he puts in 60-70 hour work weeks (yeah right) and too many others. I hate him, I mean really, truely completely hate this man. I keep hoping his lies are going to catch up to him, but his boss loves him. Her feeling is that it can't be that bad if 1.)nobody is leaving (we love each other) and 2.)the patient satisfaction rate is 100% that WE are exaggerating. As if we would take out our unhappiness on the patients.
I know you can't help. I know I should leave. (Did I mention my fantastic co-workers, who I love?) Anyway, I am just thinking about my sweet co-worker at home trying to maintain her pregnancy for another month and now worried about her job. I hate him. Thanks for letting me vent.

This is not going to be a popular post but I just felt the need to share. I too was a nurse manager at one time and know first hand some of the frustrations that a manager faces in these situations. First is why would the manager be motivated to make this decision? Could it be because Administration told him he was over-budget on staff because of his use of Per Diem nurses? That is a very likely scenario as PerDiem nurses are more expensive when they are charged back through the departments. And if the Per Diem is actually agency nurses the dcost really get out of hand. Maybe his button was being pushed by the accounting department (through the VP of Nursing) to get his costs down. Was the decision to remove your co-worker his to make? I don't think so. There are so many rules about how to handle employees that he probably had to have the input of his manager, her manager, HR rep, HR VP and maybe even the assistant hospital administrator. The ADA laws themselves would need careful review to make sure the facility would not be in violation. And the worst part of all of this is the manager is not allowed to share with the staff any of the facts related to this decision by law and by the legal department of the hospital. Unfortunately, the communication he has decided to share with you is a sign of immaturity on his part. Now here comes the part you are really not going to like: you have an obligation to tell him you feel this way. Yes, he is your boss and you must help "grow" up the boss. I get the distinct impression he thinks he is winning you (the staff) over by sharing little personal tidbits here and there. This is completely wrong. A loving and caring staff would want all the members of the team, including the manager, to be able to trust and depend on each other. You should ask for a meeting with the manager, share your concerns with examples and then allow him to absorb the information. He should then call a meeting with the staff and describe how he is going to resolve this issue for the benefit of the team. He should also ask for feedback on how he is doing as the Manager. If he wants to be a good manager he will take the right steps to resolve the problem. If not, he may get promoted thinking he is a good manager and do more harm to the institution.

But it all starts with the staff telling him that he has a problem. Sitting in the lounge and comparing notes is not going to resolve the issue.

Good luck!

HouTx, BSN, MSN, EdD · Mar 18, 2009

I have also been 'on the other side' and agree with RN MBA. This guy sounds like a fairly inexperienced manager - who does not yet understand that TRUST is the most important element in any worker-supervisor relationship. It takes a long time to build, and can be destroyed with one careless comment. In this case, it appears that he may have done irreparable damage already. Rather than make up a reason for the termination, it would have been better to simply tell you that he cannot share any additional information with you. You all know about HIPAA - you would understand.

If your organization has a 'staff satisfaction' survey, you can provide some valuable feedback on your feelings about this manager. It can be very destructive to encourage an "us versus him" situation in your department - make an appointment to talk to him yourself. Be as factual as you can. You may also want to talk to your HR employee relations person. They are usually very sensitive to these types of situations and have the skills needed to run interference for you if needed.

twinkletoes53 · Mar 18, 2009

Maybe you and your co-workers should start documenting, in writing, days, dates, and times of specific instances where you believe that there are discrepancies in your manager's account of incidents. State facts, and try not to show subjective feelings on the formal written notes you keep. Because if he acts in an untoward manner towards another staff member, or statements he has made affects you personally, it will be your (staff) word against his. If you have written documentation against him, especially if it is written independently by multiple staff members, it will be more difficult for Adminstration to keep backing him up.

LilyBlue · Mar 18, 2009

It's awful, the treatment this country allows of pregnant women. ZERO protection whatsoever. twelve weeks is not enough time to take care of a problem pregnancy plus and adequate recovery period. Why don't we value our people more?

HM2VikingRN, RN · Mar 18, 2009

The minute that you have to start keeping a diary for self protection is the time to start seeking another position. It is a key indicator of a sick workplace....