Ok, I know that organ donation has been discussed here more than once, but I couldn't find anything that addressed my particular question/issue........so here goes.
In this year's presidential election, many of the exit polls showed that people voted based on their "family/moral values." It seems they (not me!) voted for Bush because they felt he stood for those values, especially in regards to gay marriage, abortion, etc. I was very distraught after the election because I hear these people talking but I don't see these people taking moral action! Organ donation is just one of the areas that angers me.
How can the majority of this country stand on such moral high-ground and then show such PATHETIC organ donation numbers? People are dying because they can't get an organ when there are plenty available, but they get buried with the patient! How can you proclaim to be such a good person with such high moral values when you aren't even willing to donate your or your family's organs in the event of their death? I really don't see that as being a whole lot less than murder.
I'm not even a nurse yet, so I'm not right in the middle of this yet, but I do dread it! Anyway, this is just something that disturbs me deeply and I wanted to get your take on it, especially those of you, if any, that are not willing to donate. I'd like an explanation!
Actually, in the Judeo-Christian world that we live in, here in the US
The world (Earth) is comprised of more than the US. The US is but a small physical portion of it. The population also, is but a small portion of the World's population.
And Christians are but a fraction of the World's religious people.
(And despite many rabbinical statements otherwise, many moral Jews will not donate....by the same token many will not accept organ donations in their favor)
The world (Earth) is comprised of more than the US. The US is but a small physical portion of it. The population also, is but a small portion of the World's population.
And Christians are but a fraction of the World's religious people.
(And despite many rabbinical statements otherwise, many moral Jews will not donate....by the same token many will not accept organ donations in their favor)
First of all, the origins of this thread are in the recent presidential elections right here in the US. We are not discussing the world, we are discussing this little corner of the world. Don't lose the frame of reference, it is important.
As to the actions of many moral Jews, many moral people of all faiths and beliefs do not donate, I imagine, since only a few of those who might, do donate. The Jews I know (and that includes every member of my family and all my friends), are willing to donate...I have not discussed receiving. As an ICU nurse of several decades, I have had many discussions about the importance of organ donation (as well as the importance of having a designated power of attorney for healthcare decisions).
I do not suggest it is immoral to refuse to donate. I merely claim there is not a religious basis for this refusal. And, once again, I hope those who will not donate, will refuse to receive.
Actually, in the research I've done on cultural and religious influences in health care, organ donation for Jewish persons seems to rest more on personal choice than the entire religion/culture endorsing it, as Catholics do for example.
Now, these are generalities and there are always exceptions, but for the most part, the following religions/cultures do not find organ donation acceptable:
Christian Scientist
Jehovah's Witness
Muslim or Islim
And I'm sure people of these religions/cultures are also moral.
The point I'm making is that there ARE many individuals walking around within our health system who may not accept organ donation, and to assume that most people DO is a dangerous assumption, imho.
First of all, the origins of this thread are in the recent presidential elections right here in the US. We are not discussing the world, we are discussing this little corner of the world. Don't lose the frame of reference, it is important.
I disagree. How Organ Donation is perceived in the rest of the world IS relavent here in the U.S. People from many different countries immigrate to our country. Some come here permanently, others temporarily for work. If they, unfortunately, become involved in a terrible and tragic accident that leaves them brain-dead on a vent....their family will be approached just as American families are approached.
One of our recent organ donors and her family were from a middle eastern country. Many of the relatives didn't speak English. The relavance of their beliefs and decision cannot be discounted simply because they weren't originally from this country - or - 'this little corner of the world' as you have put it.
Granted, this isn't addressed in the original post...but, I think it's worth discussing.
I always seem to get in on these conversations after there are already 21 pages of responses, so forgive me if I miss something. I just don't have time to read the 21 pages!
In response to the very first post, I believe I understand what you are saying. I was also baffled by people who voted for "values," but then voted for such an immoral man. Apparently, all you have to do is talk about God and claim to be a Christian, and you will get into office - even if you do constantly lie, kill, and steal.
I have been told by some people (an EMT was adamant about this) that doctors are less likely to take extraordinary live-saving measures if you are an organ donor. I don't know...if there is truth to that, it's a pretty scary situation. I'm still an organ donor, though.
I think it should absolutely be a personal decision - of course - but the motives behind those personal decisions make me wonder.
I know countless "Christians" who preach morality and salvation every day, but few of them actually do anything to help others. I just don't think that trying to legislate hatred is a very moral thing to do. I don't think trying to prevent 2 adults who love one another from marrying (based only on gender) is moral. I don't think that endangering womens' lives for the sake of dogma is moral. I don't think it's moral to pay more attention to the welfare of a fetus than children who are already here. And I don't think it's moral to have starving people living in a nation of wealth and then go spend billions of dollars we don't have on war. But somehow, this is what constitutes morality to the "majority" of Americans.
Now, I'm not saying all Christians are like that, I also know some amazing ones who do live their faith and make tremendous changes in the world. But, sometimes it seems to me that a personal hobby of mainstream Christians is not committing helpful, compassionate acts...not being PROACTIVE, but rather, finding faults in others and focusing on those - preventing what they perceive to be sin in other populations and persecuting those committing "sins" in the media and their own personal lives, and then claiming morality. To me, morality is not about finding reasons for other people to burn in hell, it is about making lives better and allowing (here will come my Christian background) Christ's love to come through you - being an living, shining example of love and compassion. Period.
Have I gotten off-topic? Okay, back to organ donation. Yes, I think focusing on organ donation, and encouraging people to do more of it, would be a good example of being morally proactive. This is just one of a million examples. And I do wonder why people who preach morality AREN'T organ donors. If it's a religous reason, I admit I don't understand that either. Religion is not an excuse for lack of reason. Religion is not an excuse for knowing the blatant facts and ignoring them. "Religion" told people to burn one another at the stake. "Religion" has told people to do some pretty awful things and to abstain from some pretty wonderful acts. It only changes when someone has the courage to say, "This is outdated, taken out of context, and WRONG." Most religious laws are based on human-made rules anyway, not on God. So hiding behind religion is not truly a reason for anything. I understand if someone has factual, real reasons for not donating, but I do not understand it when someone knows and agrees with all the benefits of donating and then doesn't because of "religion." In any case, organ donation seems like a pretty basic, easy-to-accomplish act of goodness, and aside from reasons I don't know enough facts about (doctors letting you die so they can harvest your organs, etc), I don't know why someone would just say no. For example, when someone says, "I just don't like the thought of them cutting up my body. Eeewww!" that annoys me.
Point of clarification: Jehovah's Witnesses are permitted to receive organ transplants; it's up to the individual Witness whether or not his conscience would permit it. (I double checked on this, and this is the position of our Governing Body.)
What makes transplants difficult for those of my faith is that the surgery must be done without transfusions. This has gotten better with the advent of bloodless surgery centers.
Anyway, that's the official position from our headquarters. I just wanted to clarify.
Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.
How about this as a reason for not donating my organs. I don't want to.
very good reason, you so have that right! No question about it....
but......like said before, I would hope you also choose not to take any, either, as there are so many of who would donate that may need one in the future. To Take yourself out of the equation totally is the fair thing to do. JMO.
Off topic to respond to NiobiusSwan . .. wow, I have no idea where you live but I do not recognize the "Christian" you describe.
In my small community there are 6 different churches - Methodist, Baptist, Christian Science, Jehovah's Witness, Evangelical Free, and a community church not affiliated with a denomination. For the most part, everyone behaves pro-actively in trying to help others and also help others in need now. This Saturday a group of local men are driving to Shingletown to take a look at some trees that were donated to give to folks here who can't afford firewood. My husband is one of them who will be helping cut and transfer the wood here and then deliver it. We have a food pantry that all the local churches have a part in. We have a benevolence fund at our church - one Sunday each month there is an offering just for this. It helps people in the community who have financial trouble. Whenever a tragedy happens, the whole community rallies around to help. I could go on and on. No one I know stands on a street corner pontificating and then looking away when someone needs help. You don't like it when people are judgmental but you yourself are being very judgmental about Christians.
As Marie stated, I don't think our political persuasian has anything to do with whether we donate or not and I'd like to add that I don't think our religion does either.
It is a personal decision. But I do believe that more education would help increase donations as there are many misconceptions out there.
Sorry . .. had a knee-jerk reaction to being stereotyped again.
There are pompous people in all walks of life - those who look down their noses at others and won't stoop to help someone else. Liberals, conservatives, Democrats, Republicans, etc.
Just because I've run into a holier-than-thou liberal living in an ivory tower doesn't mean that ALL liberals are like that.
I guess I'd just like to say that I think most people of all shapes and sizes are kind to one another, help out one another and are well-meaning.
The rats are the minority. So please don't judge all Christians (or anybody) by a few rats.
steph (frustrated right-wing wacko born again Christian) :)
You don't like it when people are judgmental but you yourself are being very judgmental about Christians.
Perhaps you are right, I apologize for not being more careful about making generalizations. As I said previously, I have met some wonderful people who are Christians...some of my best friends are...perhaps I should allow the possibility that there are many more like them.
I was very distraught after the election because I hear these people talking but I don't see these people taking moral action! Organ donation is just one of the areas that angers me
I think this is why I got started on religion in general...I am frustrated with Bush and several other public figures who spout off about God but certainly don't live what they claim to believe.
caroladybelle, BSN, RN
5,486 Posts
The world (Earth) is comprised of more than the US. The US is but a small physical portion of it. The population also, is but a small portion of the World's population.
And Christians are but a fraction of the World's religious people.
(And despite many rabbinical statements otherwise, many moral Jews will not donate....by the same token many will not accept organ donations in their favor)