'Moral values' and organ donation

[wannabee]

Ok, I know that organ donation has been discussed here more than once, but I couldn't find anything that addressed my particular question/issue........so here goes.

In this year's presidential election, many of the exit polls showed that people voted based on their "family/moral values." It seems they (not me!) voted for Bush because they felt he stood for those values, especially in regards to gay marriage, abortion, etc. I was very distraught after the election because I hear these people talking but I don't see these people taking moral action! Organ donation is just one of the areas that angers me.

How can the majority of this country stand on such moral high-ground and then show such PATHETIC organ donation numbers? People are dying because they can't get an organ when there are plenty available, but they get buried with the patient! How can you proclaim to be such a good person with such high moral values when you aren't even willing to donate your or your family's organs in the event of their death? I really don't see that as being a whole lot less than murder.

I'm not even a nurse yet, so I'm not right in the middle of this yet, but I do dread it! Anyway, this is just something that disturbs me deeply and I wanted to get your take on it, especially those of you, if any, that are not willing to donate. I'd like an explanation!

[Marie_LPN, RN, LPN, RN]

Bush (and Kerry) belong on another thread.

[NurseGuy_in_06]

Perhaps you are right, I apologize for not being more careful about making generalizations. As I said previously, I have met some wonderful people who are Christians...some of my best friends are...perhaps I should allow the possibility that there are many more like them.

Some of my best friends are? I believe President Bush is a moral man. I do not agree with everything he does but I believe he is moral. I do not see how organ donation can be considered moral or immoral. Organ donation is a choice. Pushing someone to donate is coersion. And mandatory donation is just plain wrong.

[NiobiusSwan]

Some of my best friends are? I believe President Bush is a moral man. I do not agree with everything he does but I believe he is moral. I do not see how organ donation can be considered moral or immoral. Organ donation is a choice. Pushing someone to donate is coersion. And mandatory donation is just plain wrong.

Yes, some of my friends are. I stated in my FIRST post that I know some wonderful Christians, I elaborated in my second. Does that clear up the confusion? Perhaps you're wondering why I would sound so harsh regarding Christians in my first post...I thought I'd explained that one as well, but again, I will say that I was venting my frustration with a particular group of Christians and should not have generalized as I did.

As far as organ donation not being immoral or moral as it's a choice...aren't most decisions that define our morality choices? I do not support mandatory donation at all, nor do I typically coerce people to donate...but it does baffle me how someone could refuse to do something so simple (sign your driver license) that could bless so many people, and yes, it strikes me as immoral.

[Marie_LPN, RN, LPN, RN]

I do not support mandatory donation at all, nor do I typically coerce people to donate...but it does baffle me how someone could refuse to do something so simple (sign your driver license) that could bless so many people, and yes, it strikes me as immoral.

I'm sure there are some people that are baffled by the fact that some are signing the donation line on their drivers license (which, i'll add, is not the sure-fired way to get your parts donated). And it might strike them as immoral to be a donor. And some people do not view organ donation as a blessing.

Choices.

[NurseGuy_in_06]

As far as organ donation not being immoral or moral as it's a choice...aren't most decisions that define our morality choices?

I believe most moral issues are issues of chioce but I do not believe Most choices are about moral issues. But what I do not get is HOW is donating an organ or not donating a moral issue? Why in some people's opinion am I immoral if I refuse to sign an organ donor card?

[NiobiusSwan]

True, some people might find it immoral to donate or receive...but what we're discussing (I thought) was WHY. Some people may find it immoral to tell the truth as well or to save a stray dog on the highway...but that doesn't mean it should be generally accepted that that is the "moral" thing to do. We could go on for days about the definition of morality...and if everything is a choice, and whatever choice we make is still moral...as in lying, killing, cheating, etc. what is the debate?

[NiobiusSwan]

Okay, here is why I would perceive it as immoral...and that word isn't exactly the best adjective, but in any case...

Let's say I am dead. I have a body, organs that could save many lives. I am not going to be using them. I do not need them. Meanwhile, there are countless families losing loved ones, going through their own terrible sorrows and loss. Each one has a story, each one is filled with pain. I hold the key to saving some of those lives - to ensuring that a kid gets to grow up with his father, etc. I don't need the key. There is no reason not to hand it over and alleviate all that pain. But I just put it in my pocket and climb into the casket. Sorry, I don't feel like saving your lives...so, I am essentially allowing their pain to continue, for no good reason. It's like throwing food away when you've got a starving kid in front of you. Okay, the climbing into the casket scenario may be an odd analogy...

On the other hand...I guess one could argue that those living people could then go on to help overpopulate the world, etc. Or perhaps that person's quality of life would be non-existant (though they probably wouldn't opt for a transplant if that were the case)...but until I hear a really good argument to that effect, lol...I do find it a bit immoral.

I'd be interested in hearing people defend the choice NOT to donate...I am curious if there are any other arguments against it. There seems to be a great deal of defensiveness, and "It's my choice! :angryfire ", but what are the arguments - other than the blanket reason - religion - and the thought of crazy doctors letting you die to harvest your organs?

[NurseGuy_in_06]

True, some people might find it immoral to donate or receive...but what we're discussing (I thought) was WHY. Some people may find it immoral to tell the truth as well or to save a stray dog on the highway...but that doesn't mean it should be generally accepted that that is the "moral" thing to do. We could go on for days about the definition of morality...and if everything is a choice, and whatever choice we make is still moral...as in lying, killing, cheating, etc. what is the debate?

OK, more specifically then. Why do you believe it is immoral not to sign an organ donor card?

[NurseGuy_in_06]

Okay, here is why I would perceive it as immoral...and that word isn't exactly the best adjective, but anyway.

Let's say I am dead. I have a body, organs that could save many lives. I am not going to be using them. I do not need them. Meanwhile, there are countless families losing loved ones, going through their own terrible sorrows and loss. Each one has a story, each one is filled with pain. I hold the key to saving some of those lives - to ensuring that a kid gets to grow up with his father, etc. I don't need the key. There is no reason not to hand it over and alleviate all that pain. But I just put it in my pocket and climb into the casket. Sorry, I don't feel like saving your lives...so, I am essentially allowing their pain to continue, for no good reason. It's like throwing food away when you've got a starving kid in front of you.

On the other hand...I guess one could argue that those living people could then go on to help overpopulate the world, etc. Or perhaps that person's quality of life would be non-existant (though they probably wouldn't opt for a transplant if that were the case)...but until I hear a really good argument to that effect, lol...I do find it a bit immoral.

Sorry, you posted before I did. So by your logic it is immoral for a person to NOT leave all of their assets to the poor when they die?

[NiobiusSwan]

No, I don't think that everyone should leave their assets to the poor, though it's a nice thought. More than likely, their family can utilize those assets. But chances are, most family members aren't going to have any use for some spare organs.

[NurseGuy_in_06]

No, I don't think that everyone should leave their assets to the poor, though it's a nice thought. More than likely, their family can utilize those assets. But chances are, most family members aren't going to have any use for some spare organs.

We all have our opinions. It is not immoral to not donate your organs. What would be immoral is government mandated organ donation.

[NiobiusSwan]

It would be immoral to have a government mandate. I absolutely agree. But I'm curious, why do you think it's NOT immoral to not donate your organs?