'Moral values' and organ donation

SmilingBluEyes · Dec 3, 2004

I am an organ donor.......they can have it all after I die. Then, spread my ashes on the shores of Pacific Beach, WA. Those are my wishes and my family knows it. It's a personal decision, one I refuse to judge others on, one way or the other.

susanna · Dec 3, 2004

The person at the DMV told me not to check off organ donor on my driver's liscence because, he said, that would make the doctor less willing to save your life. I put it on anyways, but isn't it true that most doctors take organ donation off their liscence after they get out of medical school? This may be why a lot of people don't vouch for it.When a lot of people complain about moral values(ie. justice, fairness, kindness, equality), if most are referring to getting other people to treat them with these moral values and not really about getting themselves to treat other people with these values, then that means the moral values don't get fulfilled. This is probably why there is inaction.

mattsmom81 · Dec 3, 2004

I believe organ donation is a very personal private decision and like Deb I refuse to judge others on their feelings on this issue.

Lets just say I have some moral and concerns with how the organ and tissue donation/transplant industry operates and have reservations about where it may lead in the future.This from someone who has worked in the healthcare industry for 30 yrs. My reasons are very personal and I don't wish to get into it on a public forum.

NurseGuy_in_06 · Dec 3, 2004

Ok, I know that organ donation has been discussed here more than once, but I couldn't find anything that addressed my particular question/issue........so here goes.

In this year's presidential election, many of the exit polls showed that people voted based on their "family/moral values." It seems they (not me!) voted for Bush because they felt he stood for those values, especially in regards to gay marriage, abortion, etc. I was very distraught after the election because I hear these people talking but I don't see these people taking moral action! Organ donation is just one of the areas that angers me.
Would it anger you less if the government mandated organ donation in spite of a person's wishes? Won't happen you say? One of the western states tried to pass a law that said if you died in a motorcycle accident without wearing a helmet you were automatically an organ doner, no matter what your wishes. After a ton of protests from riders like myself this idea was shelved. But mandatory organ donation will eventually become law. Want to know how they will justify it? Money. They will say that it is cheaper to pay for an organ transplant than to keep someone alive who needs a transplant. How do I know? I am a nursing student and we just heard a speaker on this very subject. I am for keeping it an individual's decision.

allnurses Guide · Dec 3, 2004

How do you know that all those voters who voted "values" aren't organ donors? I think you are making a sweeping generalization based on how many people actually donate and ascribing it to voters who voted values.

This is a very personal and private decision and being chastized isn't going to help encourage people to donate.

Making public more stories about what organ donation can do would be a better way to encourage people. Remember the story about 7 year old Nicholas Green who was killed in Italy while his family was on vacation? His family donated his organs. Organ donation in Italy was practically non-existant there at that time and with the story of Nicholas' family's generous decision and the subsequent stories about the people who received organs it has increased tremendously.

Being positive about organ donations is a better way to get people to think about it.

steph

allnurses Guide · Dec 3, 2004

BODEGA BAY, Calif. Oct 21, 2004-Ten years after a 7-year-old boy was slain in Italy and his parents touched the nation by donating his organs one of the organ recipients traveled to the child's hometown to help honor him.

Maria Pia Pedala was dying of hepatitis in September 1994 when Nicholas Green was fatally shot in the head after robbers opened fire on his family's car as they traveled on vacation in Calabria.

The tragedy was front-page news in Italy, and the story grew even bigger with the organ donation something comparatively rare in that country at the time. Pedala, one of seven patients to receive transplants, was in a coma when she received Nicholas' liver.

"I'm here thanks to Nicholas," she said. "Nicholas is the first thing I think of when I wake up in the morning and the last thing I think of before I go to sleep."

On Thursday, Pedala headed for Nicholas' hometown of Bodega Bay for a ceremony at the Children's Bell Tower, built in the boy's memory. She brought with her a 10-pound bell to present to a man who's running for the 10th consecutive year in a 199-mile relay designed to raise awareness of organ donation.

This weekend, Pedala planned to be at the start and the finish of the race, which begins in the wine country community of Calistoga and ends in the beach town of Santa Cruz.

Pedala, who now lives in Sicily has done well since the transplant, although she still has to take medication and be careful to avoid infection. She is visiting America with her husband and their two young children.

Reg Green, 75, and his family recently moved to southern California. He works full-time on organ donation issues through his Nicholas Green Foundation.

talaxandra · Dec 3, 2004

One has to be brain dead (or nonheartbeating) to posthumously donate organs. I can't vouch for the situation elsewhere, but it is wholly untrue in Australia that anyone tries less hard to save potential organ donors.

I find the cited statistic about doctors a little dubious. I do know that some of the ICU nurses I spoke to recently about brain death volunteered their positions about donating, with a couple saying that they wouldn't donate. Their decisions were made because they didn't like the cognitive switch from treating the patient to preserving the organs, and one said that s/he felt the patient as an individual was not respected in the process (ie seen only as a repository for organs). I also know that I'm conflicted.

I think sussanna's right when she says that what most people think about when it comes to morals is how they are not being treated the way they would like, and that this concern doesn't necessarily translate into action on their part.

I also think that when people talk about morality - particularly when they make electoral and similar choices based on this - they think about what they see as morally wrong in society (moral bankrupcy, abortion, euthanasia, teen pregnancy, acceptance of gay relationships, drug use...). These isues are multifactorial, which is why they are difficult to resolve.

Organ donation is generally not seen as a high priority, except by those who need an organ or are somehow associated with donation (family, health care workers etc). There's no special interest group, no lobbyists, and for those who can lobby for it (like health care providers) there are so many other battles to fight. Insurance companies would rather people died because that's less expensive in the long-term, even though the societal costs are higher (supporting someone sick vs having a productive member).

Finally, and most importantly, the decision to donate is viewed as highly personal. Chosing to donate your child's organs is regarded as morally good, but nobody will blame you for deciding not to - there's no moral bad associated. You can see this by the responses here, and by the reaction people have to the idea of an opt-out donation policy (there's an old thread about that somewhere).

I work on a renal unit, and I look after organ recipients - renal, but also patients with other transplants who have renal failure due to cyclosporin toxicity. I see the good transplantation does. I also see patients who are wholly unsuitable being given organs, and people getting cancers from their immunosuppressants. The longer I work here the less sure I am about what I think. On an individual level I say 'take them' - I don't have a strong connection to my post-life body. But on a societal level I'm still agnostic.

Mandarella · Dec 3, 2004

I am an organ donor. I have been for the last 11 years. I have a signed card next to my insurance card...where it is sure to be found...I am registered through the DMV, through our organ donation procurment center and my family is aware. I believe strongly in organ donation, that is why I am registered as such. Many people have religeous beliefs, personal stories etc. I can't scorn people for not donating. I do wish they could see first hand what it could do to change people's lives though. :crying2:

TechieNurse · Dec 3, 2004

I have to agree with the above poster, it is a personal decision.

In my area, there have been a couple of news items surrounding this issue.

The first, a teenager's organs were harvested and never used (because of the medications used to try to save his life). The family is suing because:

a) the organ bank misrepresented what happened, saying his corneas were tranplanted when they were not

b) all of his organs and tissues were harvested, even though the organ bank knew that they couldn't use any of them , then destroyed them without the family's knowlege

The other story was that organs from a donor who had brain cancer ( the highly malignant glioblastoma) has contributed to the deaths of four recipients. The hospital knew about the donor, but did not inform the recipients or families. A quote from the doctors mentioned in the article (speaking to one of the recipients): "'The donor we got your organ from -- he was dying of brain cancer. So, we are 90 percent positive that your liver has cancer, too,'" and (from one of the recipients families) "I kept on questioning the doctors why weren't we told and one of the comments was 'livers don't come on silver platters' and 'there are a lot of people waiting for livers,'"

Needless to say, there is a mistrust of doctors and hospitals. I recently read a news article that cited a study in the Feb. 2002 journal Medical Care that echoes that...

Mandarella · Dec 3, 2004

Oh my God, that's horrific...

I have to agree with the above poster, it is a personal decision.
In my area, there have been a couple of news items surrounding this issue.
The first, a teenager's organs were harvested and never used (because of the medications used to try to save his life). The family is suing because:
a) the organ bank misrepresented what happened, saying his corneas were tranplanted when they were not
b) all of his organs and tissues were harvested, even though the organ bank knew that they couldn't use any of them , then destroyed them without the family's knowlege
The other story was that organs from a donor who had brain cancer ( the highly malignant glioblastoma) has contributed to the deaths of four recipients. The hospital knew about the donor, but did not inform the recipients or families. A quote from the doctors mentioned in the article (speaking to one of the recipients): "'The donor we got your organ from -- he was dying of brain cancer. So, we are 90 percent positive that your liver has cancer, too,'" and (from one of the recipients families) "I kept on questioning the doctors why weren't we told and one of the comments was 'livers don't come on silver platters' and 'there are a lot of people waiting for livers,'"
Needless to say, there is a mistrust of doctors and hospitals. I recently read a news article that cited a study in the Feb. 2002 journal Medical Care that echoes that...

fergus51 · Dec 3, 2004

I'm an organ donor and I admit to being judgemental about non-donors (I'm not perfect ok?). No doctor is going to not treat you because you're an organ donor. Urban legend at it's finest.....