Ok, we've just switched doctors under our medical plan. So I go in for a routine checkup, etc. at this clinic. They tell me the nurse will be with me shortly. Of course, since I'm a student, I always ask nurses how they like their jobs etc. So I ask: You're a nurse, right? She nods. How do you like the job ... blah, blah blah ... Not once did she correct me. Then I ask where she went to school. When she names the school, I'm confused because I've never heard of it.
That's when she says, "Oh ... I'm an MA."
Then the doctor comes in, and tells me "the nurse will be with you shortly." I'm like ... what nurse? Then I find out that everybody at the "Nurses Station" is actually an MA, but everyone, from the receptionist to the doctors, are referring to these MA's as nurses. My husband, who has to go in fairly frequently, says they told him the same thing ... that these MA's were nurses.
Now, I don't know if there's actually anything wrong with this, and maybe this isn't a big deal but, it seemed really weird to me. I've been to other doctor's offices where the staff was very careful to tell me they were MA's, not nurses. Especially when I asked if they were a nurse or not.
Any thoughts? Is this allowed? Why would even doctors refer to MA's as nurses?
But if it's illegal, why is this common practice? How inconvenient can it be to refer to people by their appropriate title? MA's at other doctor's offices were clear about who they were, and didn't seem to have any trouble saying so. In this case, I had to ask a lot of questions before they admitted they weren't nurses.
lizz you are absolutely right and here in chicago there are TONS of schools offering programs for MA's and it really gets under my skin because alot of the people go to these schools thinking they will be "like an LPN or RN". when i was an MA i made a horrible mistake "triaging" a patient and submitting the wrong information to the doc. the mistake did not result in harm to the patient but it could have. if i was a nurse at that time i would have known what questions to ask the patient to quickly assess their problem, but i did not know any better and i was told that triaging was one of my duites. i now tell people that triaging is a nursing skill only and cna's and ma's should not take that responsibilty. some health organizations can acknowledge the need for a nurse in their clinics and staff them appropriately,while others don't want to pay for a nurse because it is too expensive.but i guess a law suit would be cheaper???
The problem comes up that if the Dr. refers to their MA's as "nurses", then the pt has the expectation that their care is being performed by a Nurse. If something goes wrong or the "nurse" gives the pt. wrong information ( which happens quite a bit in my experience), then the Dr. is setting himself and his staff for a malpractice suit.
I think this is a problem everywhere. The trouble is, the MA's dont have a license to lose (maybe a certificate) like we do if we misrepresent ourselves.
this is from the ca brn website. if you click on the link, you will also see a list of names of people who were 'cited and fined' for violating this statute.
2795. unlicensed practice or indication of practice
except as provided in this chapter, it is unlawful for any person to do any of the following:
(a) to practice or to offer to practice nursing in this state unless the person holds a license in an active status.
(b) to use any title, sign, card, or device to indicate that he or she is qualified to practice or is practicing nursing, unless the person has been duly licensed or certified under this chapter.
(amended by stats.1990, c. 350 (sb 2084), 2.)
2796. use of title; impersonation or pretense of being professional nurse
it is unlawful for any person or persons not licensed or certified as provided in this chapter to use the title "registered nurse," the letters "r.n.," or the words "graduate nurse," "trained nurse," or "nurse anesthetist."
it is unlawful for any person or persons not licensed or certified as provided in this chapter to impersonate a professional nurse or pretend to be licensed to practice professional nursing as provided in this chapter.
I'm not arrogant but I have heard and seen so much ignorance from people who have never even stepped in a nursing classroom.
I know a lot of country doctors around here hire CNA's to work in their offices. They allow patients to refer to them as nurses...when we took my father-in-law to see a neurologist we asked to talk to the doctor or nurse and they sent a woman out to see us who had on a scrub suit and a stethescope around her neck. We wanted to ask her about why the doctor was increasing his medication fourfold...she didn't have the slightest idea why he might. We handed her the prescription and she just kind looked at it almost ina confused manner and I started to sense from her rat's nest hairdo, severely chapped lips and sloppy appearance maybe we weren't talking to a nurse...I didn't want to be conforntational so I didn't ask if she was a nurse or just someone the doctor hired off the street ( I just cannot believe that woman was a nurse, not that CNA's or people off the street are sloppy and gross-looking but the level she was talking to us on told us she knew next to nothing about medications)...the only thing she really did was tell us we would have to talk to the doctor at fil's next appointment.
(In nursing school we had a class next to the MA class...most of them were the snootiest girls you would ever meet ( I want to say that I knew a couple who were very nice and I don't know if it was just that years class or what, but they were very rude) I'll be damned if I would share a title I worked so hard to earn with them. I know for a fact we received more in depth nursing education than they did, while we were studying med. administration and patient care they were working on filing insurance claims...and hey, I'm just an LPN!
I am about to sacrifice a year of family life, pull my kids out of a school they love and leave my home to make a stressful move to another state for a grueling LPN to RN program and it irk's my a$$ to think of some snot nose minimizing the sacrifices I made (that all of us nurses made!) to earn the right to have those initials after our names.
Yes, I am well aware of the way the term "nurse" is used as a catch all term for anyone who wipes a rear end or takes a blood pressure....geez...
Your not just a lpn you are a NURSE! And no I am not an lpn student but a preRN one. LPN's may not be the same as RN's but they are both nurses (and in my state two semesters between the two in education) and entitled to use the title of Nurse. Ma's, cna's ane techs aren't. I was always under the impression you could go to jail for misrepresented yourself as a Dr or nurse.
this is from the ca brn website. if you click on the link, you will also see a list of names of people who were 'cited and fined' for violating this statute.
2795. unlicensed practice or indication of practice
except as provided in this chapter, it is unlawful for any person to do any of the following:
(a) to practice or to offer to practice nursing in this state unless the person holds a license in an active status.
(b) to use any title, sign, card, or device to indicate that he or she is qualified to practice or is practicing nursing, unless the person has been duly licensed or certified under this chapter.
(amended by stats.1990, c. 350 (sb 2084), 2.)
2796. use of title; impersonation or pretense of being professional nurse
it is unlawful for any person or persons not licensed or certified as provided in this chapter to use the title "registered nurse," the letters "r.n.," or the words "graduate nurse," "trained nurse," or "nurse anesthetist."
it is unlawful for any person or persons not licensed or certified as provided in this chapter to impersonate a professional nurse or pretend to be licensed to practice professional nursing as provided in this chapter.
when i was an MA i made a horrible mistake "triaging" a patient and submitting the wrong information to the doc. the mistake did not result in harm to the patient but it could have. if i was a nurse at that time i would have known what questions to ask the patient to quickly assess their problem, but i did not know any better and i was told that triaging was one of my duites.
I hear ya on that one. While working as an MA we used to have patients come in for Remicaid infusions. I sat everything up, started the IV with NS and then the PA would come in and push run on the IV pump. I then had to take vitals every 15 minutes. It is so scary because now I know that that drug has a high anaphylactic shock rate and at the time I just ran in did the vitals and left. I know better since I started nursing school but it is sooo scary to think of the things that I did in the Doc's office. I also drew blood, gave hundreds of injections (B12, Hep C, Iron to name a few), Triaged phone calls, called in all perscriptions including Narcs, but I didn't know any better then. I just thought I was doing my job. It makes my stomach crawl now to think of all the things that could have gone wrong. Thank god no one was ever harmed by me but it is still so scary.
Oh and why is it that even hair dressers have to hold a liscense to do hair but a person such as an MA can give an IM injection without liscense, certification, and just one year of school. You would think something could be done about that.
This is all very interesting. My husband and I applied for a large life insurance policy and they sent a "nurse" to our house to do our ht. wt. BP draw blood for HIV test etc. She didn't have the greatest interpersonal skills and I looked on our state's BON website to see if she was RN/LPN and how long she'd been a nurse, where she was educated etc. and I couldn't find her as having either license. I went to her company's website and it said they utilize Med techs, MAs, LPNs and RNs. When she called to set up the appt. she said "Hi, My name is C___, I'm a nurse with so and so and I need to come to your house..." Hmmmmm...how dare she! I worked damn hard to get my BSN!
It's a recurring theme here. Several years back it was noted a pediatric group out west had a web page where their MAs were called nurses. When our members emailed them with the objection, they quickly changed the page and apologised. See what power we can have if we take the initiative. Tell your doc, tell your BON, write the paper. We worked/working/work hard to earn that title and don't let anyone take what they don't deserve.
Ok, we've just switched doctors under our medical plan. So I go in for a routine checkup, etc. at this clinic. They tell me the nurse will be with me shortly. Of course, since I'm a student, I always ask nurses how they like their jobs etc. So I ask: You're a nurse, right? She nods. How do you like the job ... blah, blah blah ... Not once did she correct me. Then I ask where she went to school. When she names the school, I'm confused because I've never heard of it.
I was on the scene of a NASTY automoblile accident once and there was a young lady that said "I am a nurse, can I help?" I told her I needed "vitals on that patient." I pointed to a non-critical patient and she went to the patient and started taking insurance/payment info!!!!!!!!!!:uhoh21: After we flew the two critical patients I asked her several pointed questions...long story short...she was a CNA. When cornered...She said "Well, I am ALMOST a nurse!!!!!" NOT EVEN CLOSE!!!!! So now, when a "medical professional" shows up on a scene, I ask for ID. "Burned once, shame on you. Burned twice, shame on ME!"
when i was an MA i made a horrible mistake "triaging" a patient and submitting the wrong information to the doc. the mistake did not result in harm to the patient but it could have. if i was a nurse at that time i would have known what questions to ask the patient to quickly assess their problem, but i did not know any better and i was told that triaging was one of my duites.
It is so scary because now I know that that drug has a high anaphylactic shock rate and at the time I just ran in did the vitals and left. I know better since I started nursing school but it is sooo scary to think of the things that I did in the Doc's office.
I was on the scene of a NASTY automoblile accident once and there was a young lady that said "I am a nurse, can I help?" I told her I needed "vitals on that patient." I pointed to a non-critical patient and she went to the patient and started taking insurance/payment info!!!!!!!!!!:uhoh21: After we flew the two critical patients I asked her several pointed questions...long story short...she was a CNA. When cornered...She said "Well, I am ALMOST a nurse!!!!!" NOT EVEN CLOSE!!!!! So now, when a "medical professional" shows up on a scene, I ask for ID. "Burned once, shame on you. Burned twice, shame on ME!"
So basically, we have a bunch of nurse wannabees running around, telling people they're nurses. Even in emergencies.
And former MA's are saying they did things they really weren't qualified to do?
"Burned once, shame on you. Burned twice, shame on ME!"
angel337, MSN, RN
899 Posts
lizz you are absolutely right and here in chicago there are TONS of schools offering programs for MA's and it really gets under my skin because alot of the people go to these schools thinking they will be "like an LPN or RN". when i was an MA i made a horrible mistake "triaging" a patient and submitting the wrong information to the doc. the mistake did not result in harm to the patient but it could have. if i was a nurse at that time i would have known what questions to ask the patient to quickly assess their problem, but i did not know any better and i was told that triaging was one of my duites. i now tell people that triaging is a nursing skill only and cna's and ma's should not take that responsibilty. some health organizations can acknowledge the need for a nurse in their clinics and staff them appropriately,while others don't want to pay for a nurse because it is too expensive.but i guess a law suit would be cheaper???