MA's Calling Themselves Nurses?

[Sheri257]

Ok, we've just switched doctors under our medical plan. So I go in for a routine checkup, etc. at this clinic. They tell me the nurse will be with me shortly. Of course, since I'm a student, I always ask nurses how they like their jobs etc. So I ask: You're a nurse, right? She nods. How do you like the job ... blah, blah blah ... Not once did she correct me. Then I ask where she went to school. When she names the school, I'm confused because I've never heard of it.

That's when she says, "Oh ... I'm an MA."

Then the doctor comes in, and tells me "the nurse will be with you shortly." I'm like ... what nurse? Then I find out that everybody at the "Nurses Station" is actually an MA, but everyone, from the receptionist to the doctors, are referring to these MA's as nurses. My husband, who has to go in fairly frequently, says they told him the same thing ... that these MA's were nurses.

Now, I don't know if there's actually anything wrong with this, and maybe this isn't a big deal but, it seemed really weird to me. I've been to other doctor's offices where the staff was very careful to tell me they were MA's, not nurses. Especially when I asked if they were a nurse or not.

Any thoughts? Is this allowed? Why would even doctors refer to MA's as nurses?

[southern_rn_brat]

Before starting Nursing School, I worked in a Nephrologist office as a secretary. He let 2 nurses go and hired MA's to save money. Time came for this doc to get his yearly TB test. The MA used an entire new bottle for the test instead of the 2 cc's she was supposed to use. There was enough in the bottle for 14 skin tests and she used it all for the one test!!!! Immediately after, the Doc knew something was wrong. He went back and looked at the bottle, called his dermatologist and poison control, the local ED, and finally called his faithful RN that he had just recently laid off. Looks like he will probably have a few false positive readings in the next few years, but no permanent damage. The next week, the MA's were gone and the regular LPN and RN were back to work.........with a nice fat raise. I thought it was a valuable lesson learned.

huh?

[jaxmom63]

I'm sorry, but that makes no sense. A TB test doesn't use 2 cc, it uses 0.2 cc; it would be physically impossible to give an intradermal injection of 14x the normal dose. Certainly a doctor receiving such a dose would stop the MA in mid-injection as she tried to place it and blew his skin apart. Nor should the size of the dose cause him years of false positive readings. I just have to question the whole story.

And I see again, that people are resurrecting old threads. This one was over a year old until it was dredged up a few hours ago. Doesn't anyone ever look at the dates, or do they just pick pages at random to start reading and responding?

Crabbily.....catlady.

It was not physically impossible, I saw the wheal when she got done. He was not paying attention. I have not had to give a tb test yet and couldn't remember how many cc's it was. This happened 4 years ago. And when i answered the thread, it had been posted a few hours before. His dermatologist was the one who said it would give him false positive tests for the next few years, I personally took that call. And obviously, you didn't look at the date either, because you very snottily answered an old thread yourself. I don't appreciate being called a liar. However crabbily you do it. Merry Christmas.

[Bipley]

It was not physically impossible, I saw the wheal when she got done. He was not paying attention. I have not had to give a tb test yet and couldn't remember how many cc's it was. This happened 4 years ago. And when i answered the thread, it had been posted a few hours before. His dermatologist was the one who said it would give him false positive tests for the next few years, I personally took that call. And obviously, you didn't look at the date either, because you very snottily answered an old thread yourself. I don't appreciate being called a liar. However crabbily you do it. Merry Christmas.

I don't believe you are being called a liar, but we do believe you are mistaken. It isn't possible to give 2cc intradermally. It isn't a matter of it just being wrong, it isn't possible. There wouldn't be a wheal. There would be a hole. LOL 2cc of IPPD would not leave any wheal, it would leave an injury and no doc would ever let any person come at them with anything but an insulin syringe for a TB test.

I wonder if they gave 0.2cc instead of 0.1?? I would imagine that is about all that would be possible to give intradermally. I am not sure about that, I've never tried to give more than 0.1cc.

Also, IPPD typically comes in 1cc vials and 5cc vials. I don't recall ever seeing a 2cc IPPD vial.

[SmilingBluEyes]

Moderator Note:

Members are reminded to keep posts friendly and free of flaming. It's ok to state an opinion strongly or have a debate, but attacks are not allowed.

Thanks for understanding.

[blynn]

I am an LPN employed at a clinic where each physician is assigned their own assistant, be it LPN or MA. The doctors do generally refer to us all as 'nurses', I think simply because they really don't understand the difference and/or it's just easier for them to lump us all together as 'nursing staff'. We all have the exact same job responsibilities. In fact, the main people who trained me in on my job were MA's. The MA's are all very careful to refer to themselves as 'the assistant' when they're interacting with patients. Anyway, our MA's are really sharp and know their jobs very well.

[LKB82]

i just graduated with my bsn, will take my nclex most likely mid-january, and start my new job at the end of january. in the mean time, i am working two part-time jobs in non-nursing capacities. one of the jobs is in a physician's office, and i do billing, clerical work, appointments, etc. i refuse to "play nurse" for the day as i have yet to take nclex, and therefore cannot be considered license pending. i was appalled today when i was doing coding and billing when i realized that one of the cnas and a ma were administering influenza vaccines to patients. i went to the office manager and explained to her how dangerous it is for unlicensed assistive personnel to be doing this, especially the cna. she said she would look into it and discuss it with the docs to see if they were aware of what was going on. if she doesn't push this issue with the docs, then i will. (as a side note, the office does have rns and lpns working with each doc, but i think a lot of them really don't care and are just eager to push off any work on a willing body). i'm just trying to do my homework now and get all of the facts straight before i push this. in school we addressed delegation and unlicensed assistive personnel, and we worked with cnas in the hospitals, but could someone enlighten me as to exactly what a ma's scope of practice is? even the ma's at the office can't really define their scope of practice. any input would be greatly appreciated. in the mean time, i'm going to dig out my illinois nurse practice act and see if it specifically addresses ma's anywhere.

[LPN1974, LPN]

Well, I was wondering, too, just exactly what would happen if an MA did something that injured a patient.....where would the responsibility lie....with the MA or the physician?

A nurse, RN or LPN, takes the responsibility for their actions, but I'm just wondering what would happen in the event an MA did injure someone.

Are they licensed like an RN or LPN?

Can MA's get Liability Insurance?

And as far as MA's or CNAs calling themselves nurses.....in the state I live in, it is illegal to identify oneself as a nurse, if they don't have the license.

You can't have a tag, or any piece of paper or anything saying you're a nurse, or have the initials of a nurse's degree on it, if you're not a nurse. But of course, that probably doesn't cover just allowing someone to "assume" you are a nurse.

I think that could be a dangerous game to play to allow patients to assume an employee is a nurse, even in a doctor's office.

[Bipley]

i just graduated with my bsn, will take my nclex most likely mid-january, and start my new job at the end of january. in the mean time, i am working two part-time jobs in non-nursing capacities. one of the jobs is in a physician's office, and i do billing, clerical work, appointments, etc. i refuse to "play nurse" for the day as i have yet to take nclex, and therefore cannot be considered license pending. i was appalled today when i was doing coding and billing when i realized that one of the cnas and a ma were administering influenza vaccines to patients. i went to the office manager and explained to her how dangerous it is for unlicensed assistive personnel to be doing this, especially the cna. she said she would look into it and discuss it with the docs to see if they were aware of what was going on. if she doesn't push this issue with the docs, then i will. (as a side note, the office does have rns and lpns working with each doc, but i think a lot of them really don't care and are just eager to push off any work on a willing body). i'm just trying to do my homework now and get all of the facts straight before i push this. in school we addressed delegation and unlicensed assistive personnel, and we worked with cnas in the hospitals, but could someone enlighten me as to exactly what a ma's scope of practice is? even the ma's at the office can't really define their scope of practice. any input would be greatly appreciated. in the mean time, i'm going to dig out my illinois nurse practice act and see if it specifically addresses ma's anywhere.

it is within the scope of practice for a cma to give injections. it is easy to look up their scope of practice, just check with the licensing/certification authority of your state.

they are technically working under the md license. they've been giving injections for eons. i did it when i was an ma (before mas were certified) when i was in college. i worked for a doc from the time i was 17 through part of college. i gave injections, drew labs, did basic office labs such as wbc, diff, mono test, preggo tests, hanging drops, the works.

a cna... i don't know about.