Mandating vaccine for children

Nurses COVID

Published

Here's what Pfizer had to say about the use of the vaccine for children under 12:

https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-announce-positive-topline-results

It's not impossible mandates may son follow and apply to children,  particularly for attending school. 

How do you feel about the potential for this vaccine to be required for children?

Specializes in Community health.

My state doesn’t mandate flu vaccines for children, so I’d be a little surprised to see a mandate for Covid vaccine. And I’m in a state that mandates and legislates Ev-Ry-Thing. So when I think about more libertarian states (Texas, Alabama) I’d say the likelihood of widespread mandates for this is near zero, at least in the next couple of years.
 

However, I do think my state will have widespread voluntary vaccination for kids (we are one of the leading states for adult vaccinations and therefore our hospitalizations now are extremely low). 

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20 hours ago, HiddencatBSN said:

I don’t take advice from antivaxxers. Vaccines are a part of the social contract, especially during a pandemic. And COVID is having a massive burden on society beyond the people directly affected. 

We shouldn’t be. This is sealioning, slipperyslope whataboutism nonsense.

Who are you calling an Anti vaxxer?

Social contract? Explain this contract, when it was signed,  the mutual assent, and the consideration. 

1 Votes
Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
33 minutes ago, jive turkey said:

 

Social contract? Explain this contract, when it was signed,  the mutual assent, and the consideration. 

It's an ethical philosophy and discussion.  

3 Votes
Specializes in Critical Care.
40 minutes ago, jive turkey said:

Who are you calling an Anti vaxxer?

Social contract? Explain this contract, when it was signed,  the mutual assent, and the consideration. 

Whether the "social contract" applies to you is simply based on whether you're somebody who has a conscience and lives in a society.

5 Votes
22 hours ago, HiddencatBSN said:

Vaccines are a part of the social contract, especially during a pandemic. And COVID is having a massive burden on society beyond the people directly affected.

 

1 hour ago, jive turkey said:

Social contract? Explain this contract, when it was signed,  the mutual assent, and the consideration. 

There’s really no need for you j turkey to run off to your bank and rummage through your safe deposit box, looking for that notarized contract you signed in the presence of two witnesses. It’s not that kind of contract. Which I’m sure you are aware. 

We can have anarchy or if we want our society to function, we can agree on a social contract. I’m having problems coming up with a viable alternative. 
 

https://www.britannica.com/topic/social-contract

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_contract
 

1 hour ago, jive turkey said:

Who are you calling an Anti vaxxer?

I’m not sure who was being called an anti-vaxxer, but since you asked.. you do in my opinion bear all the hallmarks of one, despite your vigorous protestations to the contrary. I base that conclusion on the content of your numerous posts on this forum.

5 Votes
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44 minutes ago, MunoRN said:

Whether the "social contract" applies to you is simply based on whether you're somebody who has a conscience and lives in a society.

Let's talk about a conscience then.  

This is the message I get from you and others here:

If you don't take a vaccine you have no conscience. 

If you support forcing/coercing drugs in to people that don't want it you have a conscience. 

Fear of the virus is more important than a person having a sense of self and control over what happens with their body. So it is everyone's responsibility to take control over human beings and tell them how to live, and what to do with their body.  Correct? 

If that is not an accurate reflection of your sentiments adjust accordingly and explain your perspective. 

 

1 Votes
Specializes in Psych, Addictions, SOL (Student of Life).
1 hour ago, jive turkey said:

Let's talk about a conscience then.  

This is the message I get from you and others here:

If you don't take a vaccine you have no conscience. 

If you support forcing/coercing drugs in to people that don't want it you have a conscience. 

Fear of the virus is more important than a person having a sense of self and control over what happens with their body. So it is everyone's responsibility to take control over human beings and tell them how to live, and what to do with their body.  Correct? 

If that is not an accurate reflection of your sentiments adjust accordingly and explain your perspective. 

 

Jive.

Although you know that I don't agree with your stance I do admire the fact that you actually do try to defend it. I too actually believe that these vaccines should be a choice. However, for every choice made there will be consequences, Sometimes those consequences are good and sometimes not so good. in the novel The Giver the chief elder states "When people are given choices the sometimes choose wrongly"

People still have a choice even with mandates but Employers (at least in At Will states)  Have a choice to no longer employ someone. 

Having a stand against mandatory vaccination does not make one a protected class, So the employer can't be sued for discrimination.

Me, I likemy job, I am treated with respect and am fairley compensated for my work, I am 6 years from retirement and will not jeoaordize over a vaccine that sisn't do me any harm, If there is long term side effects which I highly doubt based on my own research.

So get the vaccine or don't. It is in fact your choice, unless you want to work in healthcare or for the federal government.

hppy

 

6 Votes
Specializes in A variety.
30 minutes ago, hppygr8ful said:

Jive.

1.Although you know that I don't agree with your stance I do admire the fact that you actually do try to defend it. I too actually believe that these vaccines should be a choice. However, for every choice made there will be consequences, Sometimes those consequences are good and sometimes not so good. in the novel The Giver the chief elder states "When people are given choices the sometimes choose wrongly"

2.People still have a choice even with mandates but Employers (at least in At Will states)  Have a choice to no longer employ someone. 

Having a stand against mandatory vaccination does not make one a protected class, So the employer can't be sued for discrimination.

3.Me, I likemy job, I am treated with respect and am fairley compensated for my work, I am 6 years from retirement and will not jeoaordize over a vaccine that sisn't do me any harm, If there is long term side effects which I highly doubt based on my own research.

So get the vaccine or don't. It is in fact your choice, unless you want to work in healthcare or for the federal government.

hppy

 

1.Regarding the quote for The Giver, who determined if the choice was wrong? That's very subjective.  

I agree, people make choices and later learn an alternative choice may have produced a more desirable result.  The concern comes when people champion forfeiting choices to the government without question, letting them decide what's best for us without dispute.  

2. I never argued vaccination status is a protected class.  Businesses will always do what protects profit.  PERIOD. These mandates are in response to the status quo and a fear of being liable for "spreading COVID" due to not falling in line and issuing mandates indiscriminately.  We live in a litigious country where businesses lose money over frivolous lawsuits and settlements all the time.  This is a CYA approach.  

3. That's all good for you nothing wrong with that.  But look at this for more than COVID.  Taking the position of "Employers can do what they want" communicates we can be manipulated and controlled with are jobs even more than already.  I also don't like that argument because sexual harassment, discrimination, and low wages were also Employers "doing whatever they want". Then we came up with minimum wage, the EEOC and other labor laws.  

People like to reference vaccine requirements for other diseases as if COVID is the same as other diseases and the vaccines are the same others.   

1 Votes
Specializes in Peds ED.
5 hours ago, jive turkey said:

Who are you calling an Anti vaxxer?

I think that is obvious. You might not like the label but you're using antivax rhetoric.

5 hours ago, jive turkey said:

Social contract? Explain this contract, when it was signed,  the mutual assent, and the consideration. 

Quote

Social contract, in political philosophy, an actual or hypothetical compact, or agreement, between the ruled or between the ruled and their rulers, defining the rights and duties of each. In primeval times, according to the theory, individuals were born into an anarchic state of nature, which was happy or unhappy according to the particular version of the theory. They then, by exercising natural reason, formed a society (and a government) by means of a social contract.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/social-contract

You "signed" by living in and benefiting from society. It's society's responsibility to you and your responsibility to society.

4 Votes
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5 minutes ago, HiddencatBSN said:

1.I think that is obvious. You might not like the label but you're using antivax rhetoric.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/social-contract

You "signed" by living in and benefiting from society. It's society's responsibility to you and your responsibility to society.

It is not obvious.  Your misguided label is more of a reason people don't vaccinate than any argument I make.  Many people don't vaccinate out of fear and lack of trust. Id like you to justify how calling someone an "Anti vaxxer" and having that attitude helps the cause and increases vaccination rates.  Do you believe you're accomplishing that or just satisfying a selfish need to lash out? 

You're dead wrong.  There's people I know who never had COVID and I would prefer they took the vaccine vs risk battling COVID. They go from hesitant to resistant/refusal after getting a taste of the sentiments you and many others display. 

You should consider taking a closer look and get a better understanding of the definition you supplied.  It really didn't reinforce your argument.

Specializes in Peds ED.
14 minutes ago, jive turkey said:

It is not obvious.  Your misguided label is more of a reason people don't vaccinate than any argument I make.  Many people don't vaccinate out of fear and lack of trust. Id like you to justify how calling someone an "Anti vaxxer" and having that attitude helps the cause and increases vaccination rates.  Do you believe you're accomplishing that or just satisfying a selfish need to lash out? 

You're dead wrong.  There's people I know who never had COVID and I would prefer they took the vaccine vs risk battling COVID. They go from hesitant to resistant/refusal after getting a taste of the sentiments you and many others display. 

You should consider taking a closer look and get a better understanding of the definition you supplied.  It really didn't reinforce your argument.

You're promoting and amplifying antivax nonsense during a pandemic. You should consider the harm your intellectual exercise is causing.

2 Votes
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1 hour ago, HiddencatBSN said:

You're promoting and amplifying antivax nonsense during a pandemic. You should consider the harm your intellectual exercise is causing.

You should consider the harm your condescending holier then thou arguments are causing. 

What exactly have I said that's "nonsense"? Spell it out.  Stop leaning on the antivax label crutch 

You conveniently avoided my question.  Shall I ask it again or can you acknowledge its too tough a question ?

 

1 Votes
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