Mandating vaccine for children

[jive turkey]

Here's what Pfizer had to say about the use of the vaccine for children under 12:

https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-announce-positive-topline-results

It's not impossible mandates may son follow and apply to children,  particularly for attending school. 

How do you feel about the potential for this vaccine to be required for children?

[SmilingBluEyes]

I feel the same as other vaccines for kids that are mandatory. If they want to be in public schools and go to public venues  (flying/DisneyLand, etc)----they need to be vaccinated. For all the same reasons as I feel adults need to. Once determined to be safe/to be used in kids, time to mandate them as parents most certainly won't do the right thing across the board.

[kaylee.]

To the OP: what is your take on it? Surely you already have some opinion on the matter, which is why you initiated this discussion. 

As for me I am in support of mandates for this vaccine that are in line with the other important vaccines that we require for children in schools. 

 

[JadedCPN, BSN, RN]

Once fully approved by FDA, no different than every single other FDA-approved vaccine that is mandated for school-aged children to attend public schools. This is not a new concept, at all.

[listless reads]

2 hours ago, jive turkey said:

Here's what Pfizer had to say about the use of the vaccine for children under 12:

https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-announce-positive-topline-results

It's not impossible mandates may son follow and apply to children,  particularly for attending school. 

How do you feel about the potential for this vaccine to be required for children?

How do I feel? Disgusted...? FDA approval is kind of mute for me due to the funding they receive. The regulators are hollow shadows of their former selves. 

 

[jive turkey]

2 hours ago, JadedCPN said:

Once fully approved by FDA, no different than every single other FDA-approved vaccine that is mandated for school-aged children to attend public schools. This is not a new concept, at all.

I disagree.  This virus is shaping up to necessitate boosters frquently and indefinitely. This is not the case with school mandated vaccinations (minus influenza depending on jurisdiction). 

A mandate for such vaccination would have a degree of newness.  

3 hours ago, kaylee. said:

To the OP: what is your take on it? Surely you already have some opinion on the matter, which is why you initiated this discussion. 

As for me I am in support of mandates for this vaccine that are in line with the other important vaccines that we require for children in schools. 

 

I have concerns considering how new the vaccine is,  how new the application of mRNA vaccines are (yes I know they started researching it 30 years ago) the number of participants in their study to determine the vaccine is safe for that cohort,  and the nature of this specific virus considering what demographic is most often critically affected. 

[listless reads]

1 hour ago, jive turkey said:

I have concerns considering how new the vaccine is,  how new the application of mRNA vaccines are (yes I know they started researching it 30 years ago) the number of participants in their study to determine the vaccine is safe for that cohort,  and the nature of this specific virus considering what demographic is most often critically affected.

Very true. And they've never developed a successful mRNA vaccine in those 30 previous years but I guess when our backs are against the wall, we submit an application for approval using a group of 3410 "suspected but unconfirmed COVID-19 [patients] in the overall study population," and get FDA approval anyway. 

https://www.fda.gov/media/144245/download

[jive turkey]

54 minutes ago, listless reads said:

Very true. And they've never developed a successful mRNA vaccine in those 30 previous years but I guess when our backs are against the wall, we submit an application for approval using a group of 3410 "suspected but unconfirmed COVID-19 [patients] in the overall study population," and get FDA approval anyway. 

https://www.fda.gov/media/144245/download

Right.  The 30 year thing is a common counter argument given when anyone speaks to the newness of mRNA. Couple that with the topic of this discussion, Pfizer's clinical trials in children was just south of 3k participants. I would have concerns using mandates this early. 

[GrumpyRN, NP]

From the article you referenced;

"In participants 5 to 11 years of age, the vaccine was safe, well tolerated and showed robust neutralizing antibody responses."

“Over the past nine months, hundreds of millions of people ages 12 and older from around the world have received our COVID-19 vaccine."

“Since July, pediatric cases of COVID-19 have risen by about 240 percent in the U.S. – underscoring the public health need for vaccination." (My Bold)

 

What are you trying to prove now? More nonsense about mRNA vaccines - "oh they are too new, oh they have only been investigated for 30 years."

 

The Phase 1/2/3 trial initially enrolled up to 4,500 children ages 6 months to 11 years of age in the United States, Finland, Poland, and Spain from more than 90 clinical trial sites.

 

In case you don't understand what clinical trials involve here is a quick guide. Check out the numbers of participants.

 

Phase 1:

During Phase 1 studies, researchers generally test a new drug candidate in healthy volunteers (healthy people). In most cases, 20 to 80 healthy volunteers participate in Phase 1.

Phase 2:

In Phase 2 studies, researchers administer the drug to a larger group of patients (typically up to a few hundred) with the disease or condition for which the drug is being developed to initially assess its effectiveness and to further study its safety.  

Phase 3:

For diseases affecting many patients, Phase 3 studies typically involve 300 to 3,000 participants from patient populations for which the medicine is eventually intended to be used.

https://www.concertpharma.com/understanding-clinical-trial-terminology-whats-a-phase-1-2-or-3-clinical-trial/ 

 

 

So come on, what is your point? Your own reference has proved that the vaccines are safe in children. So what are you going to do next? Will it be some more nonsense? Do you still not understand that viruses mutate and can require boosters or that immunity can decrease? That the flu vaccine is different every year because of this? Why is this a problem? Why do you have a problem with getting everything as back to normal as possible?

 

[toomuchbaloney]

9 hours ago, listless reads said:

Very true. And they've never developed a successful mRNA vaccine in those 30 previous years but I guess when our backs are against the wall, we submit an application for approval using a group of 3410 "suspected but unconfirmed COVID-19 [patients] in the overall study population," and get FDA approval anyway. 

https://www.fda.gov/media/144245/download

So you are afraid of the long term effects of the vaccine...too afraid to vaccinate? So afraid of this possibility that you want others to think about the danger and consider refusing vaccination also? You and Jive Turkey seem to be on the same mission in these threads. 

[hppygr8ful, ASN, RN, EMT-I]

On 9/22/2021 at 6:01 PM, kaylee. said:

To the OP: what is your take on it? Surely you already have some opinion on the matter, which is why you initiated this discussion. 

As for me I am in support of mandates for this vaccine that are in line with the other important vaccines that we require for children in schools. 

 

Now that the vaccine has been determined to be safe and effective I believe all segments of society should (As a matter of social responsibility) be vaccinated). No vaccine hesitent.refuser on this forum has been able to post anything close to a peer reviewed, properly vetted study to prove otherwise. They may feel a certain way but "Facts don't care about your feelings."

The fact that people will not step up and to the right and necessary thing is sad and the very reason that we are talking about mandates in the first place.  Here  in California we experienced a measals outbreak in in 2014. Patiet zero was idendtified as an unvaccinated child who had visited Disneyland in mid-December, 2014 of the 110 cases in California 40% were found be be unvaccinated. Understand that in the year 2000 measals had been classified as extinct in the US.

It is now required by law that all California school age children be vaccinated against the measals if they are going to attend public school and many private and religious schools have jumped on the bandwagon. If you refuse vaccination or cannot for health reason your only option is to be homeschool. 

Before you ask, yes I am a mother and I would have  my now grown child the first in line for the covid vaccine. The fact that he went on his own and got vaccinated makes me feel very proud to be his mom. 

The vaccine hestitant population is a comparatively small and I am somewhat in favor of just letting evolution take its course but so many of these  will spread the disease around before they succumb means we can't just leave them to their own devices. 

Even if boosters are required which they most certainly will be  they will only be one of many boosters that school age recieve children before they reach their teenage years.

Opening the economy, getting kids back in the classroom and people back to work are all good things. Refusing vaccination shows a high degree of indifference towards one's fellow man.

The only way to bring this under some semblence of control wil be though mass vacination. 

hppy

[jive turkey]

7 hours ago, hppygr8ful said:

Now that the vaccine has been determined to be safe and effective I believe all segments of society should (As a matter of social responsibility be vaccinated). No vaccine hesitent.refuser on this forum has been able to post anything close to a peer reviewed, properly vetted study to prove otherwise. They may feel a certain way but "Facts don't care about your feelings."

 

That's not entirely true