Male modesty double standard

[caregiver111]

While working in the trauma room in a large US city I witnessed this scenario of the double standard of modesty for male patients many times.The police would routinely walk in the trauma room and were allowed to stand around and watch as patients were put through the necessary but extremely embarrassing ordeal required in trauma resucitation. If the patient was a female the curtains would be immediately closed and kept closed until the entire trauma procedure was complete. If the patient was a male the curtains were always left open and the police officers which often included female officers were allowed to watch as the patient was stripped naked, under went a digital rectal exam and catheterized. Allowing the police especially female police officers to watch this is blatant patient abuse. I think people should consider suing the hospitals as this double standard of modesty for male patients is an extreme violation of medical ethics and standards of decency that are supposed to apply to all patients. Police should not be allowed to enter the trauma room in the first place without permission or be allowed to " hang out " there while patients are being treated.

[morte, LPN, LVN]

Attempting to invalidate one person's experience does nothing to support your own view, actually you make yourself look less then trustworthy.

Your ignorance is astounding, I really don't know where to begin. Do you think the cops are just hanging out in the trauma room for fun? To get their jollies? If the pt is in custody, the cops stay by their side no matter what. Including invasive procedures, radiology screens, OR, etc. The rest of the time if the pt is alert and the medical teams needs to disrobe the pt or do invasive procedures the cop will step out or turn around till the pt is draped, if they aren't in custody. If the pt isn't conscious, well we've got more life saving things to worry about than if a sheet isn't draped right. In my book life trumps modesty every single time.

So what unit in the hospital do you work where you see cops gawking at pts every day? Because making up crap like you're doing is the problem. Not the rest of us working hard every day to see our pts get the very best care they can.

[SionainnRN]

Attempting to invalidate one person's experience does nothing to support your own view, actually you make yourself look less then trustworthy.

Less than trustworthy by explaining the why and how things happen?? Alrighty then.

If it was about "one persons experience" that would be one thing, but since it's a handful of people (who have extremely similar writing styles) painting nurses and police as crass, uncaring perverts, then I will do anything I can to invalidate that idea.

[Esme12, ASN, BSN, RN]

banterings ESME12, I am sorry that I took your comment out of context.

No worries. Thank you for saying so...:)

banterings I am also sorry for how people treated you. None of that is acceptable. Whether you are trying to help them or not, every person should be treated with dignity. Are these people the outliers or the norm? I have to believe that you can tell a thousand stories of patients who appreciated the way that you treated them for every one bad story.

I have plenty of wonderful stories from/about my patients. If I didn't love them I sure could not have lasted 35 years (and counting) The problem is....when someone has a wonderful experience they don't really feel the need to tell anyone and they are always thankful to the MD for he saved their life....and he did....essentially. I find in the recent years people in general are more aggressive and dissatisfied with things in general. There is a sense of entitlement and self absorption that patients and families are demanding to the extreme and are aggressive towards staff. It is also the areas I work where patients and families are frghtened and vulnerable. In today's societal norms means aggressive and abusive.

banterings I agree with you about the "good ole boys" club. Women are making progress, I saw a figure that 64% of medical school students (physician) are female.

The latest figures from the Association of American Medical Colleges

As in past years, the total number of men and women applying to and enrolling in medical school is fairly equally split, with male enrollees accounting for approximately 53 percent and female enrollees accounting for 47 percent of the 2013 class. In addition to the increase in first-time female applicants, the total number of men applying to medical school increased 5.8 percent from 24,338 applicants in 2012 to 25,760 male applicants in 2013.

banterings As for sexual assaults, I find this abhorrent. There are reasons that (an estimated) 40% of assaults are never reported, gender choice being one.

How they are treated in the courts an judicial system is another.

banterings I live by "do unto others as you would have done to you."

I always treat my patients with the same care and dignity I want for me and my family.

banterings That is my point exactly. If hospitals were properly staffed (at a realistic level), there would be almost no issues of gender choice.

Not really while more men are entering nursing...it is still a female dominated profession so choice could still be an issue even with adequate staffing. You cannot hire based on gender for that would be discrimination.

banterings There apparently is enough abuse in the healthcare system that the Joint Commission had to craft a "Code of Conduct" (that defines acceptable and disruptive behaviors) mainly as a response to the way physicians treated nurses. There are a number of threads on this topic here on allnurses (link here:)

The Joint commission statement is to address the disparaging and demeaning treatment of nurses by physicians and lateral violence i the healthcare field...it is the treatment of each other that was addressed...I have some jaw dropping stories abut physicians over the years...again another thread.

banterings Please do not make assumptions about me or my life. Making assumptions about me involves "deficit thinking."

If I did it was unintentional I apologize.

banterings The problem with "rare anecdotal cases" is that one person can affect the lives of thousands. The case of Dr. Nikita A. Levy of Johns Hopkins involves 7000 women. This is just an example how 1 person can affect the lives of thousands in healthcare, it is not to say anyone condones this behavior or it is the norm.

This man is an example of the good ole boy club, a bad MD, and one sick pup...

"Dr. Nikita Levy saw more than 12,000 patients over the decades he spent working at Hopkins. But in February of 2013, Levy was fired after a fellow employee reported suspicions he was taping patient examinations. He committed suicide 10 days later. "Investigators ultimately recovered more than a thousand secret videos and hundreds of photographs of patients."

banterings Dignity belongs to all people: patient, nurses, physicians....

Amen.

banterings

I am not going to cite studies or rebuke you in any way, but I ask you (and anyone else who feels this way): Why do think the public feels this way? I don't need science, I want your experiences, your observations, your feelings on this subject. I know why you feel that way, by the actions toward you.

I think there is an overall loss of social graces and consideration of their fellow man. There is a sense of entitlement combined with a lack of respect for anyone/anything else. I think religion and the internet/cell phones/violent games are partly to blame...but that is another thread.

banterings Please clarify so that I do not take this out of context, are you referring to healthcare or society here?

Both really

Women have had no choices in their healthcare for many years as women were NOT admitted to medical schools and still face discrimination in medical schools from the "good ole boys" club. We are accustomed to being given little to no choice...because we are women. Women are constantly minimized and marginalized because we are woman and therefor any "vague" complaint is discarded because we are...women.

Historically females have been not considered "of equal value" As the male dominated physician world...females were offered little choice in the gender preference of their care giver. It has never bothered me I loved my OB/GYN he was awesome. As a female diagnosed, finally, with a rare auto-immune disorder. I was brushed off by the male dominated physician world with "hormonal" "stress" related "female" histrionics issues when in fact I had a classic presentation of this rare disorder that would have been diagnosed earlier (admitted by a male MD) had I been male. Women scorned: CV disease undertreated and underdiagnosed

study presented on behalf of the ALARM-HF group by assistant professor Dr John Parissis from the University of Athens, Greece, looked at female patients who did not receive optimal medical therapy readily prescribed for their male cohorts. Women represented 37% of around 5000 patients studied. The female patients presenting in acute heart failure were older and had higher systolic blood pressures and higher heart rates than their male counterparts. They had less coronary heart disease, less hemodynamic shock, and more right heart failure. Women faired equally well from a mortality standpoint in this study, but fewer women than men received adequate heart-failure therapies such as ACE inhibitors or beta blockers. The presenter emphasized the important implication of gender-tailored management, specifically targeting diastolic heart failure in women.

[middleager]

Interesting dissection of Banterings conversation. The history of male MD's dominating the field is well known as well as women's struggles in general for equal treatment. It continues at some level today. I know a couple of men whom are RN's and have talked about being on the other end of that where they came into the "girls club". One talked about how one of the female nurses stuck a nickname on him by taking the one of the letters on his name (Doug) and turning it upside down. You get the picture. He said he just had to live with it and laugh it off until he moved and got a job at another hospital though he hated it. Both guys talked about being the minority and a little of an outsider. When I was in college....many decades ago, there was a conscious effort to encourage women to enter medicine. I am curious Esme12, do you see any efforts to increase gender diversity in nursing? Time and women standing up are largely for integrating the ranks of MD's. That was part of a larger women's right movement. What do you see with men coming into nursing? Is there any effort to address the disparity or is it just seen as a non-issue?

[Esme12, ASN, BSN, RN]

I know a couple of men whom are RN's and have talked about being on the other end of that where they came into the "girls club". One talked about how one of the female nurses stuck a nickname on him by taking the one of the letters on his name (Doug) and turning it upside down. You get the picture. He said he just had to live with it and laugh it off until he moved and got a job at another hospital though he hated it. Both guys talked about being the minority and a little of an outsider.

There are men in the profession and the numbers are increasing however in most areas of nursing they remain a minority. I have found men more opposed about going into nursing because of stereotypes about the masculinity of male nurses. Yes they have entered the "girls club" and are subjected to stories about children, boyfriends, husbands, menstrual periods with intimate details about the joys (not) of pregnancy/childbirth. The men I have encountered while always feel they are being "used" all the time for lifts because they have muscles/physical strength. You will find more males in other sub specialties like CRNA (certified registered nurse anesthetist) and NP for a more independent practice and of course more pay.

Sexual harassment is NOT of and your male friends had plenty of options...like reporting the offensive nurses. Your friend CHOSE to

live with it and laugh it off

this behavior is NOT acceptable.

[macawake, MSN]

I have never accused anyone of not caring. I do question the lack of outrage and the caviler attitude.

When you posted about the deviant surgeon my response was: “this surgeon’s behavior is obviously blatantly criminal and deeply unethical”, “to be truly outrageous behavior”, “it’s my opinion that the surgeon should have her license revoked and face criminal charges” and “No one (I work with) would condone or protect this kind of behavior”.

It’s an unequivocal condemnation but perhaps not as flamboyant as your own: “This is truly INDEFENSIBLE!!!”, but condemnation nonetheless. I just seldom use bold, caps and a slew of exclamation marks when I communicate, don’t mistake that for lack of umbrage. I would react if I witnessed a patient being mistreated and seeing it would upset me. It is one of my responsibilities to advocate for my patients. In my opinion it’s both a professional as well as a moral obligation that I have.

I feel that you’re so entrenched in your views that you don’t hear what people are actually saying to you. I don’t know what else I can do, it feels a bit to me like you’re expecting that I and other nurses engage in a public act of self-flagellation, in order to atone for the sins and transgressions of others. I can only speak for myself, I have absolutely zero inclination or interest in doing that. I will not do it. I accept full responsibility for my own actions, but not those of others. I will of course however do something if I see wrongs committed, I just will not accept any blame for what someone else has done.

I am sure that whodaman received the best care from nurses who were genuinely concerned, but their actions fell short of their feelings. In the end is it not about the patient? Are we to say whodaman is incorrect about his perception of his care or how he views healthcare? Are we to accept that the nurses are desensitized as the reason for his treatment (but they still care makes everything fine)?

You keep repeating a word (desensitized) I used in one of my replies to you, but I don’t think you’ve interpreted my meaning correctly. All the inferences about how a nurse who’s become desensitized from all that s/he’s witnessed and experienced, will behave are your own. I never once mentioned how I think that it might affect a nurse in a professional capacity. I simply mentioned it because I perceive that you are looking for Supernurse/Madonna on a pedestal and I thought that it might be useful for you to try to, for a moment ponder that nurses are human.

There are limits to how much agony and pain one can witness and absorb, before it starts having an effect on you. A nurse had better develop some kind of coping strategy in order to survive nusing and be of any use to his or her patients.

If whodaman was treated the way he described I wouldn’t consider the actions of that nurse being caused by her being “desensitized”. I don’t think what was described, meets that standard of “best care”. I don’t think it was professional behavior. Just so you don’t get upset by my continuous use of the qualifier if, I’ve testified in a court of law hundreds of times. I will use if to describe anything that I haven’t witnessed with my own two eyes, you can’t draw any further conclusions than that, based on my use of the word.

Patients are not trained to suppress their emotions, quite the opposite they are very emotional being sick and vulnerable. Patients are not desensitized either.

I’m cognizant of the fact that patients often feel vulnerable in a healthcare setting. I do what I can to provide comfort and to protect my patient’s dignity and autonomy.

I’m positive that I didn’t claim that I believe that patients are trained to suppress their emotions. I don’t believe it and I don’t expect it. I actually didn’t even say that I suppress my emotions. I don’t know why you interpreted it that way. I was simply trying to explain why I believe there is somewhat of a disconnect in this thread. You seem to feel that there’s a lack of outrage in nurse’s responses to you, that’s what I was addressing. I was identifying a possible reason why despite nurses having expressed their thoughts on the matter, you perceive a lack of outrage.

I don’t suppress emotions. I just naturally tackle problems intellectually, not emotionally. The reason for this can be found in my personality as well as my education.

As healthcare became more assembly line, having a patient naked improved efficiency.

You’ve lost me with this line of reasoning. We don’t “have patients naked” in healthcare. Patients are only naked when it’s required for assessment or treatment purposes. It’s my experience that at all other times, we actually prefer and expect our patients to remain clad.

When I think of female nurses, I think of the ones portray in the 1940's movies, how they cared for patients. Honestly, men would prefer female caregivers. They see the 1940's nurse who reminds them of how their mothers and wives took care of them when they were sick.

The one of problems that men have with female providers is the lack of emotion that these "scientifically trained" people do not have. Anthropologically, we expect that emotional caring from women, but when it lacks, there is a feeling of "something wrong" that makes men extremely uncomfortable and unacceptable. Yes, our mothers would do anything to save our lives, but they acknowledge our feelings, they earn and keep our trust.

I’m not the mother of my patients, I’m their nurse. I personally find the idea of comparing my relationship with a patient (which is a professional one) to the emotionally intimate relationship of a mother and child, slightly distasteful.

It’s not a mother’s touch that’s needed in a healthcare setting. What I as a nurse bring to the table is expertize, my knowledge and my experience. If I didn’t have my professional training, many of the patients under my care would have suffered injury, disability or death.

I’m perfectly capable of acknowledging my patients feelings and offer them a hand to hold when needed, despite being scientifically trained and despite not being a warm cuddly mom type of person when working. Actually it’s in part due to the fact that I am scientifically trained, that I do this. Nursing is holistic. I realize that it takes more than pharmaceuticals , practical skills and medical knowledge to provide optimal care. Just because I will always prioritize life-saving interventions when an acute situation is at hand, doesn’t mean that I’m oblivious to the emotional and spiritual aspects of patient care.

I wonder if you can reconcile in your mind the fact that many of my patients (male and female) actually tell me that they feel that I genuinely care about them, despite my being very far from your description of emotionally, caring mother?

I’ll give you a hint. I’m a professional. I project calmness, a bit of wry humor, interest and confidence in my abilities and that seems to meet my patient’s needs. It’s who I am and it seems to work.

I think that nurses need to have boundaries vis-à-vis their patients. There are certainly other successful formulas apart from my personal way of meeting and treating patients. Some people are naturally more expressive and emotional and that can work too. It’s not a case of one size fits all. However a relationship as emotionally close as a mother and child, is in my opinion too close and unprofessional. I think it would be to the detriment of both the nurse and the patient.

I’m genuinely sorry if you’ve been mistreated in some way. I just don’t understand what we, anonymous nurses on a message board, can help you with or if any of the posts so far have been helpful in resolving the problem?

[middleager]

Esme12 while we tend to think equal rights means we are the same (between genders). I don't believe that is the case. While we discussed if the genders were reversed there would likely be a lawsuit, honestly neither of us took it as sexual harassment. He took it more as teasing to an extreme. To us it was not a whole lot different that if he was bald and they were teasing him constantly about that. It got old, wished they would lay off but nothing that would warrant creating an issue the magnitude of filing a sexual harassment case. Lets be honest, females can get away with this kind of teasing, behavior, whatever you want to call it because they are less likely to be seen as harassing, and to be honest men are less likely to take it as harassment, heck some would love it. But then men have not endured the ugly side of this like many women where teasing does go into harassment and even physical abuse so it is easier to laugh it off. Another one of those things that doesn't make it right, but more understandable. His point of bringing up was not that he was offended or intimidated, but more to show what being a guy in the "girls clubhouse" was like. I think it contributes to a lot of problems including in the medical arena where men are taught to suck it up and laugh it off, that's what a MAN does. As a result it contributes to our not seeking help when we should, and contributes to being unhappy with the way we are treated in the medical settings. We suck it up and don't say we are uncomfortable with things, then get ticked at the providers or ourselves because we were uncomfortable. I believe this contributes a great deal to the original post, I would ask the OP how many men complained or protested about it. While we argue we should get the same respect and consideration as the female patients in that example, how many complained or asked for it. Not saying the double standard is acceptable, because I still don't feel it was. Being treated differently because of gender is profiling period. But say nothing and you own part of it. Women are better at it because they had to do it to get even basic rights.

I asked because I used to teach a junior achievement class at the local high school a couple times a year on the value of education and employment options. One thing I noticed is I had only one male in the numerous years I did it hold up his hand when I asked who have considered nursing as a career. He wanted to be a flight nurse so as you indicated, a specialty area. I have heard ER attracts males in nursing as well. The obvious thing I took away was young exactly your point, these young men (8th & 9th grade) saw it as a woman's profession and were afraid they would be called gay if the said they wanted to be a nurse. I was just curious if you saw anything being done to change that perception. I have done some things on my own to plant the seed for young men that nursing isn't a female or male career, it is a good career if helping people is your passion. I didn't know if the profession itself even had this on the radar as something that should be looked at.

[middleager]

Oh and Esme, I really appreciate your taking the time to correspond. I originally came to this site when I was considering a mid life occupation change. I ended up not doing it but am fascinated with what you all do. If I had it to do over and could do anything other than what I do, I think I would love being a nurse. I have made a boat load of money, but not really rewarding on a personal level like helping someone through the challenges you all do. My wife is a teacher, over the years has come to dislike the educational system but still loves those little folks so she stays. With that in mind I appreciate you taking time to enlighten and share with an outsider.

[banterings]

macawake, I do NOT have a problem. Please STOP trying to diagnose me and recommend a course of treatment!

I should have said: I have never accused anyone posting on this topic here of not caring.

The reason for this can be found in my personality as well as my education.

I accept this as well as your constant reference to being scientifically trained. Healing is an art just as much as a science. Here study is available on the national institute of health website that shows how powerful emotions can be. This is not hesitation, this is avoidance.

It is not the normal or the routine that cause complications, spur lawsuits, etc., it is the unusual, obscure, and sometimes silly. Note that the study specifically rules out mental illness (other than phobia). This scientific study, posted on the NIH web site illustrates how those "momentary lapses" when trying to "save a life" could have repercussions down the road. It is hard for people to grasp sometimes that psychological issues can be just as dangerous as physical issues (a patient discharged with a missed tumor or internal bleeding for example) because they can not be seen.

Although the case study does not go into the basis of phobias, but prior experiences that include feeling the loss of control are one of the causes. I will not go in to detail on the cause of phobias or citations here (unless requested).

Just as you have been trying to label me mentally ill because I am not thinking the way that you expect me to or that you have been trained to, I am sure that you would also label someone mentally ill for refusing life saving bypass surgery because they are "afraid." Again, note that the study specifically rules out mental illness (other than phobia).

A 2009 study, "Tomophobia, the phobic fear caused by an invasive medical procedure - an emerging anxiety disorder: a case report physiological arousal covert feelings and thoughts and overt behavioral reactions,"came to the following conclusion: Due to the rising number of surgical interventions in modern medicine, as well as the high number of unrecognized cases of tomophobia, this common but underdiagnosed anxiety disorder should be highlighted.

Here are excerpts from the case:

The patient was a 69-year-old Caucasian man without a history of mental illness or any previous psychiatric treatment. He was initially transferred to a medical emergency department with marked dyspnoeic symptoms and tachycardia, where an acute coronary syndrome was diagnosed. After laboratory testing and an electrocardiogram a non-ST elevation myocardial infarction (NSTEMI) was diagnosed. The following coronary angiography (an intervention that was endured by the patient with enormous dread), revealed severe three-vessel disease.

The patient was informed of the urgent indication of a bypass operation, which was planned as an emergency intervention on the same day. At the end of the angiographic intervention, this information caused a severe panic reaction with hyperventilation, tachycardia and the feeling of loss of control, which was successfully treated with benzodiazepines. He described an intensely irrational and unavoidable fear of putting himself in the hands of others -surgeons and anesthetists in this case. Moreover, the fear of losing control of his body through loss of consciousness or compromise of physical integrity during an operation or surgical intervention was reported. The patient was not able to give his agreement for the operative intervention because of overwhelming panic and anxiety. Due to his intense fear he eventually refused the bypass operation...

...The psychopathological findings at the time of psychiatric exploration were limited to intense fear in relation to the forthcoming surgical procedures and interventions. During the psychiatric exploration, the patient was polite, friendly, and honest. Compulsive symptoms were limited to the repeated checking of electric appliances. As a consequence of his lifelong avoidance strategies he seemed not to feel oppressive limitations in everyday life. Until then, he had never consulted a psychiatrist or a psychotherapist regarding his phobic symptoms. He described being ashamed of his unreasonable fear symptoms. Panic disorder symptoms were not observed at any time during the psychiatric exploration. No history of syncope was found. Family history revealed a suspected anxiety disorder in the patient's father, although he reportedly never consulted any physician or other healthcare professional. Further examinations of the patient such as laboratory tests, duplex sonography, an electroencephalogram and a cranial magnetic resonance imaging were entirely normal. A Specific Phobia was diagnosed according to DSM-IV criteria...

...Our patient neither experienced syncope nor symptoms of massive disgust while being confronted with the phobic stimuli, but he complained of intense fears related to the impending operation. Considering the absence of disgust response and fainting, the assignment to the situational subtype or a combined form of phobia could be the more appropriate diagnostic category for the reported case of tomophobia.

Bienvenu et al. reported a study of 1920 subjects, which showed a prevalence of the "blood-injection-injury" phobia of 3.5%. None of these patients was receiving mental health treatment specifically for phobia [6]. With regard to tomophobia, the number of undiagnosed cases might be much higher than the number of cases that are actually diagnosed, possibly because repression and avoidance of feared situations are the leading behaviour of these phobic patients. The majority of patients suffering from specific phobia do not seek professional psychiatric or psychotherapeutic help (only 12-30% do) unless they have a comorbid disorder [1]. In addition, the presence of "blood-injection-injury" related symptoms worsen the prognosis of panic disorder and agoraphobia [7].

Due to progress in the development of invasive treatment and an increased number of established intervention procedures in modern medicine, cases of diagnosed tomophobia might increase in the near future. Above all, surgeons and general physicians may be increasingly confronted with patients who refuse medically urgent procedures due to tomophobic fears. Our patient became symptomatic when he was informed about the indication of the necessary operation. The patient's refusal of the surgical intervention can be comprehended as typical avoidance behaviour as a result of his permanent phobic disorder. The patient was always cognitively capable of understanding the consequences of his unreasonable decision, but the fear of impairment of physical integrity and of losing control while accepting the bypass operation was greater than the fear of dying as a consequence of the detected heart disease...

Esme12,

Not really while more men are entering nursing...it is still a female dominated profession so choice could still be an issue even with adequate staffing. You cannot hire based on gender for that would be discrimination.

I do not wish to name the system/facility, but the staffing is better than most. The gender breakdown of nurses reflects the national average. Many of the male nurses work as floating nurses. They are not usually assigned patients but are called to different floors/wards as needed by patients requesting same gender care or patients that nurses that patients are assigned to deem that their patients may be more comfortable with same gender care. The same is true of female patients.

There is a disparity of pay in this system where male nurses receive higher pay and higher signing bonuses. This is based sole on economic factors of supply and demand. The reverse is true of gynecologists where females command a higher salary. While not perfect the accommodation rate is around 88% (I believe). It is noted that this is not "advertised" because "if you say would you like xxx," people will just say yes just because they were offered something.

I have some jaw dropping stories abut physicians over the years...again another thread.

Ask nurses in their 60's about how they were treated when the traditional uniform was standard, and you will see why sexual harassment was one of the major reasons that it was replaced. Infection control IMHO was a way to justify without admitting to a problem that at the time was (secretly) acceptable as part of the culture.

How they are treated in the courts an judicial system is another.

Don't start me on this. I have had an assault victim tell me a prosecutor asked about her sexual history of (any) promiscuity to see if she is a credible witness... talk about issues of dignity (that is another thread).

I think there is an overall loss of social graces and consideration of their fellow man.

Let me give you some hope here, as I stated I will hold the door for women, I stand up when a woman comes in the room, when I meet someone, I introduce myself and shake their hand (male and female), I thank store clerks and wish them a nice day back. I have even spoke up when a customer in front of me took the attitude you described with a cashier who was obviously new. I said all the things that the cashier wanted to say, I turned the tables and focussed on his outrageous behavior. I am also making sure that our grandchildren are learning these niceties.

Historically females have been not considered "of equal value" As the male dominated physician world...females were offered little choice in the gender preference of their care giver. It has never bothered me I loved my OB/GYN he was awesome. As a female diagnosed, finally, with a rare auto-immune disorder. I was brushed off by the male dominated physician world with "hormonal" "stress" related "female" histrionics issues when in fact I had a classic presentation of this rare disorder that would have been diagnosed earlier (admitted by a male MD) had I been male.

More hope, this is changing too. The National Institutes of Health (NIH) is creating new policies requiring investigators to address sex and gender issues in the design and conduct of NIH-funded preclinical studies.

SWHR has released a white paper about the new National Institutes of Health (NIH) policies requiring investigators to address sex and gender issues in the design and conduct of NIH-funded preclinical studies. The white paper is intended to advise the NIH on the development of new policies, training and initiatives related to accounting for the sex of cells and animals in basic research. It covers the history of the study of sex differences, SWHR’s recommendations for NIH-funded preclinical research, and examples of studies that emphasize the importance of sex differences. In addition, the white paper includes a recommended mock-up of the requirements the NIH should apply to researchers who seek funding.

Source: The Society for Women’s Health Research

[elkpark]

Ask nurses in their 60's about how they were treated when the traditional uniform was standard, and you will see why sexual harassment was one of the major reasons that it was replaced. Infection control IMHO was a way to justify without admitting to a problem that at the time was (secretly) acceptable as part of the culture.

I'm really trying to avoid this thread, and particularly your postings (but it's like watching a train wreck getting ready to happen; I just can't look away ...) but have to comment on this statement. Where do you get your ideas from?? I am an RN in my late 50s who started practicing "when the traditional uniform was standard," and I've never heard anyone suggest that "sexual harrassment" was a reason why nurses wanted to get away from whites. I've never heard older (career-wise, that is, not necessarily chronologically) nurses complain particularly about the traditional uniform look, period, since we all "grew up" (in school) with it and took it for granted. In my experience, it is the younger (newer) nurses, many of whom have never worn a traditional uniform or cap, who complain most vigorously about them.

[betsyb56]

In our ED, the only times patients are stripped naked is when it's a serious accident, gunshot wounds, when surgery is likely to be performed. The idea, of course is to see everything. When we're busy, the patient's modesty, especially for men, is low on the list of priority. One reason for the double standard is that female nurses identify with the woman, and pay more attention. There is the old saying that female nurses are professionals and therefore it is allowed for them to see male genitals and it doesn't bother the woman. I wonder sometimes when no one else makes an effort to provide a towel for the man's groin whether the other women are trying to prove that it's true.

Regarding the initial post, ALTS teaching in the past encouraged rectal examination in trauma patients and many patients had a Foley catheter too. However many studies and ALTS have recommended against routine DRE as unnecessary. Our doctors do few DRE's unless there is pelvic trauma, rectal bleeding

[Esme12, ASN, BSN, RN]

Ask nurses in their 60's about how they were treated when the traditional uniform was standard, and you will see why sexual harassment was one of the major reasons that it was replaced. Infection control IMHO was a way to justify without admitting to a problem that at the time was (secretly) acceptable as part of the culture.

Uhm I wore whites..dress shoes, and hose. I was there when it was changed it had absolutely NOTHING to do with sexual harassment. Where on earth did you get that information? Could you cite a source please?

I do not wish to name the system/facility, but the staffing is better than most. The gender breakdown of nurses reflects the national average. Many of the male nurses work as floating nurses. They are not usually assigned patients but are called to different floors/wards as needed by patients requesting same gender care or patients that nurses that patients are assigned to deem that their patients may be more comfortable with same gender care. The same is true of female patients.

I am sure that the males are not specifically assigned because of gender to not be assigned to a unit that is discriminatory. I find males gravitate towards these positions as they prefer the independence and avoidance of female drama.