MA saying she's "the same as an RN"

[RedSox33RN]

At my job, we are offered classes each month for our CEU's as LNA's. We were at one the other day for some psych training, and we were asked what we wanted to be doing in 5 years. Myself and another woman said that hopefully we be all graduated and working as RN's, since we're both in nursing school.

Another woman said that she was graduating next week from an Medical Assistant program, and how it was "exactly the same as being an RN", but she got her degree faster, but won't get the same money (and she proceeded to b!tch about that).

Now, I've seen the debate here in the General Nursing discussion, but this just chapped my rearend. I think MA's are great - as are LNA's and LPN's and RN's and everyone that works in healthcare. A friend of mine is an MA, but she does not pass herself off as a nurse. Another friend is a Surgical Tech, and while she doesn't say she's an RN, her son calls her a nurse, saying his mom told him she did "more" nursing in the OR than the nurses do. I've corrected him twice about it, but don't anymore. It just bugs me that I'm busting my hump to become an RN, yet anyone that works in healthcare feels they can call themselves one.

I'm so careful, I don't even call myself an SN while at work, and don't call myself an LNA while in clinical!

I don't know why people can't be proud of what they are. Some of the best tips and knowledge I've gotten on the job has been from the LNA's, many of which are career LNA's. THey're damn good at what they do! It's bothersome that some feel it all comes down to you're either a nurse, or have to claim to be one to be recognized.

Anyway, I kept my mouth shut when this LNA/MA was going off, but I so wanted to say, "So if you're the same as an RN, why won't the hospital or the state recognize you as one? Why? Because you aren't. You may as well call yourself an astronaut. You aren't one of those either!"

Okay, back to the regularly scheduled programming.

[HeartsOpenWide, RN]

I am a CMA (but will be an RN some day:) ) but I would never say that I the same as an RN. Not even close! I am not saying that MAs to not work hard, but RNs to not go to school a year longer than MAs just to "make more money" its a LOT more than that. Some one should clear this person up. Not only because she needs to know the difference, but because she is going to embarrass herself one day and maybe even p!ss one one off...

[HeartsOpenWide, RN]

It's funny, I was just talking to a coworker of mine today about this same thing! She's an MA and I am on my way to becoming an RN with a BSN degree. I was asking what the difference is between an MA and a CNA and she informed me that the MA programs are 2 years, like the Associate RN programs. She said the difference is that MAs can't work on say a floor in the hospital, they are limited to out-patient clinics I guess (at least in Oregon). I guess the training is different, they don't get the same physical assessment classes we get, among other things...

What do you all think? Is that true?

J :)

What exactly is a MA's scope of practice?? At my Doctor's office, it seems like they hire MA's instead of Nurses these days... In fact, the MA comes in before the Doctor, and MA's are able to give injections! At least my Doctor's MA admitted that she wasn't a Nurse...

As far a time frame, CNA (where I live) take one course (basic patient care) that is one semester (6 units). CMA goes through a program taking several different courses (many requiring pre-reqs) that last a year.

As a CMA I do patient intake, where I take vitals (weight, B/P, pulse, resp, temp) I draw blood, give injections, remove sutures, run office tests such as glucose, test urine for bacteria and do bacteria count of spun urine under a scope, hematocrit/hemoglobin, puls-ox, EKGs, strep screens, mono screens, pregnancy testing, steralizing etc. I also set up for and assist with office procedures, paps, excisions, sigmoidoscopys, complete physicals (have to get all vitals plus do a hearing exam, check for color blindness and peripheral vision.) I also do all the paper work for labs done in the office, I do referrals, make appoint ments for patients at the hospital for tests we do not run (ex. x-rays, glucose tollerance tests etc) call in medication, and call patients with test results, basic patient education etc. We have to know a lot of stuff that nurses might not (partly because they do not need it) such a all the current medications, since we have to call in RXs and refills, so of course we have to know all the abbr.

[palesarah]

Okay guys, I'm gonna show my ignorance here, but what the heck is an LNA? In Illinois we don't have that type of healthcare provider.

LNA= Licensed Nurse Assistant, replaced CNA in New Hampshire (not sure what, if any, other states) a couple years ago.

[danu3]

It's funny, I was just talking to a coworker of mine today about this same thing! She's an MA and I am on my way to becoming an RN with a BSN degree. I was asking what the difference is between an MA and a CNA and she informed me that the MA programs are 2 years, like the Associate RN programs. She said the difference is that MAs can't work on say a floor in the hospital, they are limited to out-patient clinics I guess (at least in Oregon). I guess the training is different, they don't get the same physical assessment classes we get, among other things...

What do you all think? Is that true?

J :)

I looked into a local reputable MA program before I decided to go and get an RN instead.

First of all, it is true that MA takes about 2 years like an ADN. But that is sort of where the similarity stops. Here are some differences:

* MA has a LOT more training than a RN in office administrative tasks (actually RN really have none). Look at details at their courses.

* MA has a lot less science requirements. For example, MA takes a two quarter physiology/anatomy course (in a quarter system) instead of the harder version of physiology/anatomy which last 3 quaters (the books are different and the MA version is a lot thiner).

* RN have have a lot more spiritual-psycho-social training beside the biological side while MA has none of these requirements.

* The prereqs for MA is basically good communication skills and a high school degree. For ADN, you have 1 year of physio/anatomy, micro, nutrition, psych, life-span psych, .... For BSN, you have the wonderful extra requirements of chem and organic-chem and other courses.

* Instructors for MA are either RNs or people with administration stuff to teach the office part.

* Clinical for MA are a lot less, I mean a LOT less and part of the "clinical" involve office administration.

* Patient contacts are different. RNs can potentially have a lot more physical patient contacts and doing a lot more yuking stuff (dealing with all kinds of human fluid imaginable and not imaginable).

* Assesment skills, I would go with a RN anytime.

* There are other differences, these are the one that pop into my head from attending the MA information meeting and took one intro class.

* Pay for MA is a LOT less than RN and for good reason when you look at the details in terms of training (don't look at the length of time as that is not an accurate view).

* A nurse is way more flexible than a MA beside having the ability to work in a hospital. A nurse can work on a cruise ship, can work in a law office (nursing attorney), can work with computer systems (nursing informatics), can even be a cop (certain type of forensic nursing), can work in camp, in school, with drugs companies, with libraries, with researchers, with insurance companies... nurses are there at the beginning of birth to the end of life and everthing in between. Nurses are like bateria, they are everywhere! The difference between nurses and bateria is that we don't have a shortage of bateria.

* In a disaster situations, one does not really need MAs, one needs MDs, nurses, social workers, chaplains, police, fire, and so on. Basically people who are highly trained.

Basically, MAs have a their roles in the health care system scheme of things. As usual, skills overlaps. MA, RN/LVN, other health professions, and MD all takes blood pressure, we don't all start claiming we are MDs because we happened to have some skills that overlap with MDs.

In terms of career wise, an ADN is far better that a MA in terms of pay, in terms of potential career advancement(can do a bridge to a BSN, than later graduate studies, and even PH.D) while MA has none of these potential.

As for which one is easier to get in, where I live, they are both hard to get in as they are both impacted. I do know the classes I need to take is a lot easier than what is require in a ADN/BSN program and thus it would have the advantage of a lot less stress and lower blood pressure. I know, as I looked in it for myself and I decided to risk the high blood pressure instead... it is a tradeoff.

-Dan

[Kelly_the_Great]

It's my understanding too that some of these MA are just ppl that the doc has trained, OJT, and no training in a school of learning at all.

At least, that's what I see (hear of) in TX anyways.

The docs do this b/c they can pay them less, also they don't have to worry about being bunked by a nurse who won't do some outrageous, imprudent thing b/c she's not willing to jeopordize her license.

P.S. Please excuse the spelling errors.

[danu3]

It's my understanding too that some of these MA are just ppl that the doc has trained, OJT, and no training in a school of learning at all.

At least, that's what I see (hear of) in TX anyways.

The docs do this b/c they can pay them less, also they don't have to worry about being bunked by a nurse who won't do some outrageous, imprudent thing b/c she's not willing to jeopordize her license.

P.S. Please excuse the spelling errors.

Yes, another very good point - MA gets paid a lot less. Another point which you mentioned is that RN are trained to avocate for their patients and they are known to disagree with the doc as they are the last line of defense in catching mistakes in many situation. MA are not train in this area and they would not have a chance argueing with the doc.

[Fun2, BSN, RN]

I am a medical assistant, and was trained in a 9 month program. I can say I was highly trained in injections and venipunctures.

As for any other RN 'things', they are totally different.

I couldn't imagine anyone saying that a MA and an RN are the same thing!!!!!!

That is just someone who was very insecure around RN's and tried to make her title to be more important.

As for myself, I was always intimidated around RN's because I knew that I started out of high school to be an RN, but quit college.

Yes, it enabled me to work in the medical field, but I would never say an MA and an RN are the same things, nor I would never think I wasn't at the lower end of the medical practice totem pole.

[smk1, LPN]

It's funny, I was just talking to a coworker of mine today about this same thing! She's an MA and I am on my way to becoming an RN with a BSN degree. I was asking what the difference is between an MA and a CNA and she informed me that the MA programs are 2 years, like the Associate RN programs. She said the difference is that MAs can't work on say a floor in the hospital, they are limited to out-patient clinics I guess (at least in Oregon). I guess the training is different, they don't get the same physical assessment classes we get, among other things...

What do you all think? Is that true?

J :)

Nope. The classes are different, the levels are different, the length of training is different. and MA can be a 2 yr degree by virtue of taking the other gen ed courses that any program can take, but the actual MA classes including the required prereqs still, at best, only take a year out here. The RN degree without any of the prereqs is a 2 yr program of study, 1 full year of prereqs are required. Also the MA classes are tech classes and not considered college level coursework. They take a 1 quarter basic concepts of A&P class as ther science base for the program. RN students take mid 200 level Anatomy and physiology for a full year and 2 quarters of chemistry, microbiology and nutrition. This is not in any way meant to be rude, just stating the facts for my school and several in our area. The two are not even close to being the same in educational preparation and I can see that with just the prerequisite coursework and I don't start the RN program until spring.

[BrieRN07]

It's my understanding too that some of these MA are just ppl that the doc has trained, OJT, and no training in a school of learning at all.

At least, that's what I see (hear of) in TX anyways.

The docs do this b/c they can pay them less, also they don't have to worry about being bunked by a nurse who won't do some outrageous, imprudent thing b/c she's not willing to jeopordize her license.

P.S. Please excuse the spelling errors.

Ya know... I think that's what they're doing at my doctor's office!!!

[TheCommuter, BSN, RN]

I completed an MA program five years ago. I also completed an LVN program nearly two months ago, and the two courses are strikingly different.

1. The MA program took less than one year to complete and was taught by an LVN. Office and communication skills were heavily emphasized, and the anatomy/physiology training was comparable to a sixth grade science class.

2. The MA program teaches certain skills, but the LVN program explains in detail why certain skill needs to be performed. In MA school I never was taught that tachycardia was an initial compensatory mechanism for hypoxia, or to perform head-to-toe assessments.

3. MAs are paid much less than licensed nurses. In southern California the pay ranges from $6.75 hourly (no certificate or experience) to $12 (very experienced registered medical assistant). Nationwide, the average MA earns about $20,000 yearly. Doctors prefer to hire MAs because they're paid less.

4. MAs are not state-licensed; they're either certified or registered by bodies that are not affiliated with the state.

I hope I have not offended anyone with this post. I am merely relaying my personal experiences to you all.

[nurse2be2007]

I had a run in with a disgruntle MA at my doctors office when going to have my blood drew for my physical. She takes me into the lab area and sits me down. She says, "So your going to school to be a nurse huh?" I reply that yes I was. She says, "Yea I was going to do that but I am happy with what I am doing, Nurses work too hard for their money." I said that I was fully aware of that, but that there are many different fields one can persue with their RN License. She then inserts the needle and I compliment her on how good she was at drawing blood. I mean I didnt even feel the needle go in. She says, "Its a talent, its not a skill. Talents cant be taught, you either have them or you dont. So hopefully you will be talented like me or you will be hurting a lot of patients." I just gazed at her and then replied, "Yea my mom comes here and she told me that you hurt her badly when you first started here because you didnt know what you were doing, but now that you have perfected your "skill" of drawing blood she doesnt mind for you to do it." I couldnt believe the jealous and malicious mouth this chick had.

When I went in this past Tuesday to pick up my results, the other MA couldnt find the Rubella Titer. This rude MA says its there somewhere because I KNOW I ordered it and walks away. I could tell the other MA was getting really upset. I couldnt see the lab reports clearly enough or I would have helped her find it but then the rude MA comes over and says "Let her find it, she's the soon to be nurse." and the nice MA replies, "She isnt in nursing classes yet, so back off." I just had to laugh, this rude MA is so freaking jealous its almost unbelievable. The crazy thing is that I didnt even mention anything to her about going to school for nursing but I guess it was obvious from my physical form. LOL.

Some people just have issues with certain things. I just laugh and go on my way. I truly feel sorry for her, she seems very miserable.

I get perturbed when I hear anyone that isnt a nurse call themselves a nurse. Even before I was going to school for nursing, it peeved me and I would always ask for clarification from the one claiming to be a nurse. Now that I am going to be starting nursing classes this Spring, I believe I would be even more defensive.

Take care everyone!

[smckenzi]

I have had similar problems as with an MA only with a Paramedic who was once a good friend during my clincals for nursing school. She kept refering to herself as the charge nurse on the unit when in fact she was just the onduty paramedic not the charge nurse.