LPNs Supervising RNs

[aloha551]

I am a "mature" RN who left the field of long term care after nearly 30 years. After several years off,I decided to return and took a job with an agency. My first day back was with a LTC facility and my job was to pass meds. I find that my direct supervisor, who was the unit charge nurse was an LPN. Back in the day, this would never have happened. I have always had great respect for LPNs but their area of practice was not equilivant to mine. I found it quite uncomfortable to digress to a young woman who frankly didn't know what she didn't know. I refused to carry out an order that I felt was a detrement to my patient. I felt I was within my scope of practice. My question is: Has this happened to any one else or has things changed so much that we now have LPNs supervising RNs.

[CapeCodMermaid, RN]

We are all free to say what ever we think....however, each state has its own regulations. Read the Nurse Practice Act in your state. In MY state, LPNs cannot supervise RNs...it is as simple as that.

[CoffeeRTC, BSN, RN]

Oye....LPNs can and are for the most part supervisors in LTC. I've worked with an LPN supervisor before, but for the most part...they would come to me for the difficult decsions and things they could not do. (IV pushes and a few yrs ago...md orders) LPNs can supervise the administrative nursing that you give..not the clinical (thats what I understand)

LPNs and CNAs are the backbone of LTC. With out them...well, I just wouldn't want to think about that.

As the RN..you would have been the one ultimately in charge. Sooo...if it was a bad judgement or order..I'm willing to bet it would have been your butt.

In the future, I would probably ask the DON about the protocol in situations like this.

[LesMonsterRN, ADN, RN]

The only RN I had to answer to when I worked as charge or supervisor was the DON.

[RN1982]

Thank you Michigan RN for sticking up for us LPNs. I am a newly hired LPN house supervisor that will be in charge of EVERYONE in nursing: CENAs,LPNs, and RNs but I will also have a manager above me on call. Yes we do have a difference in our scope of practice but the only thing I haven't done is hung blood but I have been the other nurse that had to verify info. I have also came across some LPNs that have ran circles around some RNs. So here in Michigan yes, you will sometimes have a LPN in charge, don't be intimidated, LPNs are also educated.:chuckle

You are welcome. Don't ever let someone make you think you are less of a nurse because you are an LPN.

In regards to Nurse practice acts, not all states have one and not all states say that LPNs cannot supervise RNs. It's as simple as that. I wouldn't be offended if I were under an LPN supervisor.

[tk3100]

Speaking as an RN that obtained LPN license first, I used to become very upset whenever an RN had to sign my assessments and paperwork. I felt that I knew just as much as an RN who had practiced the same length of time. I found that when I returned to school for my ADN, it was not the same. My LPN program was very skill focused, whereas my ADN program was more theory focused.I still had to take A and P in my LPN program. I would not trade my time as an LPN for anything. I learned what is the basis for my practice now. My BSN was pretty much "well rounded academic" stuff, with management focus.

[TheCommuter, BSN, RN]

LPN's are not equal and will never be to RN's and I would never work under an LPN EVER!!! I worked too long and too hard to be an RN and that to me is demeaning.

I'm an LVN in LTC, and here's my scathing input on this issue.

Here it is, LadyJRN1. Sorry, but in the medical field, many healthcare professionals would automatically regard you as nothing more than a lowly ancillary worker, based on the sheer fact that you are educated at the associate degree level. Many of the physicians, occupational therapists, dieticians, social workers, business office managers, and other educated professionals in the hospital setting tend to think of any educational attainment as ineffectual if it falls below the baccalaureate (BS or BA degree) level.

[RN1982]

I was beginning to think this thread was quite out of hand at first. The whole point of this thread should be to set straight some of the many common misconceptions about LPN scope of practice. Not all LPNs function the same from state to state. It's different depending on where you are. I don't know about michigan, but I know that we do not have a nurse practice act. In some states LPNs ARE allowed to push certain IV meds and ARE allowed to supervise RNs.

A nurse is a nurse is a nurse.

[shawnnarae]

Piece of advice - if you are given an order by an LPN or ever told anything about a patient or resident by an LPN, double check it yourself or call an another RN or your DON. LPN's love to burn RN's especially when they are wishing they could be an RN themself.

WOW. Are you serious? Are we in high school here? Never have i EVER met an LPN who wanted to "burn" an RN because they were jealous of their title. Those that want to become RNs do the schooling. I am an LPN and I have NEVER put one of my patients in jeopardy to "burn" an RN. Quite frankly, I am absolutely disgusted with you for this comment. It makes me wonder what kind of nurse YOU are.

[JB2007, ASN, RN]

Piece of advice - if you are given an order by an LPN or ever told anything about a patient or resident by an LPN, double check it yourself or call an another RN or your DON. LPN's love to burn RN's especially when they are wishing they could be an RN themself.

When someone tells you to do something for a patient you need to double check with yourself. That is part of critical thinking. Personally, I do not care if the other person is a RN or LPN; I am not going to blindly follow what someone else tells me to do if I know that it will have an adverse outcome for the patient. In fact, I will explain to that person why I can not do what they are asking me to do. If they do not like it, I would much rather be looking for a new job than loss my license.

LadyJRN1, I do not know who you worked with, but all LPNs are not mean to RNs. I work with many very nice and helpful LPNs. They have saved my butt many times. I am not their supervisor and I do not feel that it would be right at this point in my career. I have a lot to learn and they are very willing to teach me.

[RN1982]

It makes me wonder what kind of nurse YOU are.

I was thinking the same thing. I'm glad you said it though. Are we nurses or high schoolers? Some people don't know the difference.

[LesMonsterRN, ADN, RN]

I don't remember burning RNs to be part of my curriculum.

[RN1982]

I don't remember burning RNs to be part of my curriculum.

And I don't recall learning in school that LPNs are lowly servants to RNs.