LPNs Supervising RNs

onyx77 · Jun 17, 2008

http://www.oaklandcc.edu/nursing/Docs/PNE_Nursing.pdf
Here is the curriculum for the LPN program at a local community college. YES, they do take all of those classes.

http://www.oaklandcc.edu/nursing/Docs/ADN_Nursing.pdf

This is the curriculum for the ADN program at the same community college you posted. RNs take alot more classes then LPNs do. RNs at this college will graduate with 72 credits, LPNs with 46.5 credits. So, there is a substantial difference in there education.

The school I went to for my ADN had the first year the same for both LPNs and RNs. The RNs go for a second year to establish 'deeper' assessment skills and a 'higher' skill level - skills that aren't taught during the LPN portion.

Please note--- I have worked with MANY LPNs that are far better nurses than some RNs I've worked with. I greatly respect the LPNs that I work with and I couldn't do my job without them. In-fact the only difference between what they can do at work and what I can do, is that they require an RN's signature for the assessments they do (as long as the RN agrees with the assessment) and they aren't allowed to work with IVs, or make any major decisions conserning change in resident care, and all residents must be assessed by an RN prior to d/c to hospital. There is definately a difference in the scope of practice and education between LPNs and RNs, but that doesn't make one "better" than the other. It just means we have different guidlines to work under.

LesMonsterRN, ADN, RN · Jun 17, 2008

Please note--- I have worked with MANY LPNs that are far better nurses than some RNs I've worked with. I greatly respect the LPNs that I work with and I couldn't do my job without them. In-fact the only difference between what they can do at work and what I can do, is that they require an RN's signature for the assessments they do (as long as the RN agrees with the assessment) and they aren't allowed to work with IVs, or make any major decisions conserning change in resident care, and all residents must be assessed by an RN prior to d/c to hospital. There is definately a difference in the scope of practice and education between LPNs and RNs, but that doesn't make one "better" than the other. It just means we have different guidlines to work under.

There again it differs from state to state. I have sent many a resident to the hospital without having an RN assessment. In some cases, where are we going to find an RN to do that? We don't have RNs on all shifts, in many places.

txspadequeenRN, BSN, RN · Jun 17, 2008

licensed practical nurse...who cares what the ana thinks.... it has been my experience reading that they do not consider a rn with a associate degree a nurse either. they are bsn friendly.....

it is a violation of the nurse practice act for a lpn to supervise the clinical work of a rn, however there is nothing to legally stop a lpn from supervising the administrative work of a rn. whether or not you actually consider a lpn to be a 'real nurse' (ana doesn't), they are nonetheless an extremely important component of the healthcare team. perhaps you should look at whether or not the role of charge nurse at your facility is one of clinical leadership or of (more likely) administrative leadership.

txspadequeenRN, BSN, RN · Jun 17, 2008

why would you generalize lvn's like this. i could sit here and say the same thing about rn's . possibly jealousy of the young nurses that are able to attend school and do the things the older nurses wish they could have done like move up more in their career instead of working on some old med surg floor...you need to get a grip... this is a bunch of baloney....just a fyi not all lvn's want to be rn's...i bet you did not know that huh.

piece of advice - if you are given an order by an lpn or ever told anything about a patient or resident by an lpn, double check it yourself or call an another rn or your don. lpn's love to burn rn's especially when they are wishing they could be an rn themself.

RN1982 · Jun 17, 2008

why would you generalize lvn's like this. i could sit here and say the same thing about rn's . possibly jealousy of the young nurses that are able to attend school and do the things the older nurses wish they could have done like move up more in their career instead of working on some old med surg floor...you need to get a grip... this is a bunch of baloney....just a fyi not all lvn's want to be rn's...i bet you did not know that huh.

precisely. it was a very ignorant comment. some people are happy just to be lpns. i agree with your comment about the ana. they have their own agenda and in my opinion it hasn't always been nurse friendly.

dekatn · Jun 17, 2008

Oh no, here we go again!!!!!

RN1982 · Jun 17, 2008

What's up?

Smokey9283 · Jun 17, 2008

I am a "mature" RN who left the field of long term care after nearly 30 years. After several years off,I decided to return and took a job with an agency. My first day back was with a LTC facility and my job was to pass meds. I find that my direct supervisor, who was the unit charge nurse was an LPN. Back in the day, this would never have happened. I have always had great respect for LPNs but their area of practice was not equilivant to mine. I found it quite uncomfortable to digress to a young woman who frankly didn't know what she didn't know. I refused to carry out an order that I felt was a detrement to my patient. I felt I was within my scope of practice. My question is: Has this happened to any one else or has things changed so much that we now have LPNs supervising RNs.

After reading this message I felt I needed to respond. As an LPN that works in both LTC and emergency I find these comments insulting. The idea that an LPN can't possibly be as skilled or in some settings more skilled than an RN is appauling. At the LTC facility that I work at, we never allow agency workers to act in a charge role, regardless if they are LPN or RN. One reason is that it is unreasonable to expect that an agency RN would have enough knowledge of a resident to make a informed decision. LPN's that are aware of the past of a resident, would be better equipped to make decisions regarding that residents care.

TiffanyRN!! · Jun 17, 2008

Thank you Michigan RN for sticking up for us LPNs. :yeah: I am a newly hired LPN house supervisor that will be in charge of EVERYONE in nursing: CENAs,LPNs, and RNs but I will also have a manager above me on call. Yes we do have a difference in our scope of practice but the only thing I haven't done is hung blood but I have been the other nurse that had to verify info. I have also came across some LPNs that have ran circles around some RNs. So here in Michigan yes, you will sometimes have a LPN in charge, don't be intimidated, LPNs are also educated.:chuckle

LesMonsterRN, ADN, RN · Jun 17, 2008

Go, Tiffany! :yeah: That's exactly my function in my LTC! If you have any questions down the line, don't hesitate to PM me. :heartbeat

txspadequeenRN, BSN, RN · Jun 17, 2008

now isn't this something. i have been a supervisor in ltc for many years and never ..never have i ever ran into this attitude(( or if i did it was very short lived) before while working on the floor . but bet your sweet rn paycheck that you would have to work with the fact that i was the supervisor or you could have found the way to the timeclock. what's the big deal with coming to work doing your job and letting me do mine:scrm:. i was appointed by the don to ensure things run smoothly. obviously she/he has faith in me if not she would have put someone else in the position maybe even a almightly rn...lvn's are and have had supervisory positions in ltc consistanly for years and years now ...why all of a sudden should they not...it is commonly called the charge nurse. ever thought about teamwork and not about who is better than who. if you are always placing yourself above everyone then you cant cry teamwork ...are you willing to get on the floor and help the aides, or is that just for the lvn's to do? by the way i am a lvn but i will be a rn very soon, however i have nor ever will forget my roots....

that is unacceptable! lpn's are not equal and will never be to rn's and i would never work under an lpn ever!!! i worked too long and too hard to be an rn and that to me is demeaning. not only that, but lpn's should not be in supervisory roles especially in ltc. they are just there to give meds and do treatments and help the aides when needed.

stelon · Jun 17, 2008

I disagree. RN's are taught more deeper assessment and leadership skills. I am an RN also and still wouldn't ever work under or for an LPN, end of story. LPN's don't have to take all the classes you listed, I know this because I was an LPN before I got my RN and yes there scope of practice is different. That is why we are called RN's and they are LPN's.

But how long ago did you get your LPN? The LVN program I'll be starting in August DID require those classes as pre-reqs. The books they are assigning us are the same as the RN students have. My reasoning for doing LVN before RN are because the competition to go from LVN to RN is much less fierce than to go straight into the RN program at my school.

I've also been told by students that those who have done CNA and LVN first have done much better in the final two RN semesters than the ones who have gone straight into the RN program. This has come from both those who did it the way I am and the ones who went straight to RN.