LPN to RN through testing?

caroladybelle, BSN, RN · Oct 30, 2006

If they didn't pass, well, do what the other students do and try, try again.
You're not going to pass the test if you're not up on the latest information, and it would happen whether or not you were an RN or LPN or BSN or MSN for that matter!
I just think it makes sense in light of the nursing shortage. There won't be a tremendously long wait to get into an LPN-RN school. It would make a hugh difference in patient care. It would also help to keep jobs from being filled from overseas workers. We really should try to hire citizens first, anyway. It seems the RN organizations would be diametrically opposed, but I don't understand why. After all, they are the ones that are crying the most about a nursing shortage and demanding action.
And, BTW, why don't state nursing organizations allow LPN's to joint?? They are nurses, right???
Just a thought..
mc3:nurse:
Kind of simplistic, I know, but I've always wondered about it...

And while we are at it, since there is such a shortage of family practitioners/surgeons/internists, and many positions are being filled by foreign MDs, why don't we let paramedics/RNs with certain qualifications/experience test to be MDs - after all, that why we could give more jobs to Americans and solve the healthcare deficit????

Sorry but your arguments do not hold water.

Rn is not merely a matter of experience or ability at tasks, it is the education and knowledge behind it. And RN schools teach with a different focus.

The other issue is THERE IS NO SHORTAGE OF NURSES, merely a shortage of those that will put up with the poor conditions under which we work. When will hospitals address the issues of poor conditions.

mc3, ASN, RN · Oct 30, 2006

caroladybelle,

Thanks for your input, but I don't honestly feel I deserved the sarcasm. :madface: I'm only asking about LPN's taking the test, that's all. Yes, you can extrapolate to all levels, but that wasn't my question. And, as far as the nursing shortage goes, I agree, there's a shortage of nurses because no one wants to do the job....More nurses = more help = less stress.

And, no, I am not trying start an RN vs LPN thing.

Just trying to think of a somewhat simple solution that, bottom line, will affect all of us in the very near future. :nurse:

onlylatina · Oct 30, 2006

I totally agree with every word you had to say. I know of way too many LVN's who do a just as much or a much better job in some places than some RN's I have seen. I'm sure i am not the only one who thinks this way.Those of you who take offense ...look again at what the person had to say....it's not about LVN's vs. RN's its about patient care,staffing demands and quality of nursing.

I just feel that I'm going to get a lot of flak on this, but here goes...Since there's such a nursing shortage, why not let LPN's take the RN test with some parameters? I just thought of a few:
5 years minimum experience
letter of recommendation from supervisor
must be IV certified ahead of time
More?
They would take the same test, study from the same study guides that are available. If someone felt especially weak in say, med conversions, they could take an algebra review or brush upon on what they learned in school beforehand.
If they didn't pass, well, do what the other students do and try, try again.
You're not going to pass the test if you're not up on the latest information, and it would happen whether or not you were an RN or LPN or BSN or MSN for that matter!
I just think it makes sense in light of the nursing shortage. There won't be a tremendously long wait to get into an LPN-RN school. It would make a hugh difference in patient care. It would also help to keep jobs from being filled from overseas workers. We really should try to hire citizens first, anyway. It seems the RN organizations would be diametrically opposed, but I don't understand why. After all, they are the ones that are crying the most about a nursing shortage and demanding action.
And, BTW, why don't state nursing organizations allow LPN's to joint?? They are nurses, right???
Just a thought..
mc3:nurse:
Kind of simplistic, I know, but I've always wondered about it...

Tweety, BSN, RN · Oct 30, 2006

I work with a couple of LPNs out of the few that I work with that I would love to see take NCLEX and become RNs simply because they are so awesome and I feel they are being taken advantage because I make probably $10.00 more per hour than they do. They are excellent care providers, good in an emergency, great with doctors, great teachers, etc. It just doesn't seem right that they are used in that capacity. with that kind of responsibility and not be compensated.

However, in a field we're RNs are in disagreement about the minimium level of education already, I don't think it's a good idea to have LPNs test out and become RNs.

So while your proposals have some merit, I would be against it. I'll leave it at that because, just as it's difficult to say that "BSN should be the standard for entering into an RN field" without making ADN nurses feel insulted (I'm not saying I agree with that statement), it's going to be even more difficult to say that LPNs shouldn't test out and become RNs without upsetting some, so I won't. Thanks.

loriannlpn · Oct 31, 2006

I am currently a LPN who has one semester to go for ADN. I went through a traditional PN program, very strict, very hard. Very hard... I would have to say because I went from very little "nursing" knowledge to gaining allot of knowledge, that my PN program was very difficult and was a great accomplishment for me.

Now that I have gone through the ADN prpgram I feel that I have build upon my knowledge. RN programs teach you manager type skills, better teaching plans, care plans and professionalism. Not as hard, but, time consuming.

Please dont hang me out to dry for this one, but in my experience, I feel more confident in the ADN. I feel more prepared. Maybe it is because I have learned the hard stuff and I am building upon my knowledge

caroladybelle, BSN, RN · Oct 31, 2006

caroladybelle,
Thanks for your input, but I don't honestly feel I deserved the sarcasm. I'm only asking about LPN's taking the test, that's all. Yes, you can extrapolate to all levels, but that wasn't my question. And, as far as the nursing shortage goes, I agree, there's a shortage of nurses because no one wants to do the job....More nurses = more help = less stress.
And, no, I am not trying start an RN vs LPN thing.
Just trying to think of a somewhat simple solution that, bottom line, will affect all of us in the very near future.

There was no sarcasm - it was an honest answer.

An NP or a paramedic initiates many interventions that are common to MDs. They do many of the same practical tasks, and may often do them better than MDs. They may have as much or more clinical experience w/this tasks and issues at some point.

But that does not make them the equivalent of an MD. What is the primary difference? How they are educated (as I previously mentioned)

One can teach laymen how to insert and IV - it is no great feat. For that matter, many RN programs are not permitted to let students insert them. Experience is wonderful and necessary. But neither is the be-all or end all of nursing. These things do not an RN in make...just as much as being able to intubate or write an antibiotic script, with enough experience does not an MD make. Nor does it entitle NPs or paramedics to challenge an MD board.

And neither is having an abundance of foreign MDs considered an adequate reason to change this rule.

I regret that you do not care for my answer. But when you put a question out there, you have to expect some reasoned disagreement. You asked for reasons against this plan - the reasons are simple. LPNs are not educated on the same track as RNs. And if you wish to be on the RN track, take those courses. Much like NPs that think that they are the same as MDs after they get experience - if they want to be MDs, they need to go to medical school. There is ( at a good school) a substantial difference.

And a fictional shortage is not a good reason to override this.

dindog · Oct 31, 2006

caroladybelle - a fictional shortage (of nurses, i suppose)? do you mean the shortage is not real?

smk1, LPN · Nov 1, 2006

caroladybelle - a fictional shortage (of nurses, i suppose)? do you mean the shortage is not real?

There are thousands of nurses that are licensed yet not practicing. Many of the reasons are patient loads, inadequate pay for the responsibility etc... If these non-practicing nurses were enticed back into the field the nursing shortage would be far less.

caroladybelle, BSN, RN · Nov 3, 2006

caroladybelle - a fictional shortage (of nurses, i suppose)? do you mean the shortage is not real?

If you review this BB in any depth, that the shortage is fiction is obvious.

Current stats have demonstrated that there are 500,000 licensed nurses in the USA that are not working in nursing. There are 120,000 to 180,000 open positions for nurses, depending on who you speak to. Even if you eliminate retired (due to desire/age) licensed nurses (which generally have let license lapse or inactive), there are still more than enough nurses to cover the "shortage" in the USA.

California had one of the more notorious shortage. A large number of the hospitals are forprofits, where ratios were abysmal and conditions unsafe. Even travelers did not want go there even with higher payrates. Since the advent of ratios, the shortage has reversed out, and pay rates for travelers have come down since it is now a more desirable assignsment.

Thus American nurses will return to work and work for less, when conditions are improved. Unfortunately few hospitals will voluntarily improve conditions.

In UK, there are large numbers of native borne trained nurses that cannot find a job in nursing. This is also well documented on this BB.

In Canada (where a BSN is required), it is difficulty to for a nurse to find a fulltime job. Some resort to taking several casual (part time) positions, with few to no benefits, to cover hours. The facilities will hire two part timers in place of a full timer to save on benefits. This is also documented on this BB

In the Philippines, few new grad nurses can find a paying nursing position. Again, documented on this BB.

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I would say that makes the shortage a bit of fiction.

augigi, CNS · Nov 3, 2006

More to the point, what LPN would WANT to take on the additional responsibility of RN work without the requisite education? I can't imagine that I would. I agree that with 5 years of LPN experience, they'd be better off doing a LPN-RN program and learning the additional info.

Sheri257 · Nov 3, 2006

California had one of the more notorious shortage. A large number of the hospitals are forprofits, where ratios were abysmal and conditions unsafe. Even travelers did not want go there even with higher payrates. Since the advent of ratios, the shortage has reversed out, and pay rates for travelers have come down since it is now a more desirable assignsment.
Thus American nurses will return to work and work for less, when conditions are improved. Unfortunately few hospitals will voluntarily improve conditions.

The California ratio law has done a lot to improve the shortage but, I wouldn't say that it's totally solved the problem. There are hospitals that are still short but, they also tend to be the hospitals that pay less and have less benefits.

Some hospitals are still remarkably stubborn when it comes to pay. Even if the cost of living increases dramatically in an area some still refuse to raise their wages. Or, if they do, then they phase out things like pension benefits to make up for it.

In cases where nursing pay and benefits are really good ... the shortages tend to drop dramatically at those facilities.

So I wouldn't say that nurses are totally willing to work for less money just because of better working conditions. Money is still a big factor, especially because of the high cost of living in Cali.

Also ... by 2008, ratios are going to drop even further from 5 to 4 patients on Med Surg, just as an example, so ... that can potentially worsen the shortage.

There's no question that ratios and better working conditions have helped tremendously but, pay and benefits are still a huge driving factor with nursing shortages in Cali.

When they do pay well ... the shortages are minimal. If they don't pay well ... then the shortages are severe.

:typing

drgraden · Nov 6, 2006

Excelsior College's program is essentially a "test out". However, as most know, it is so difficult to self-study and tutorial publishers abound looking for a quick buck while not really vested in your success. Also, the pass rate is pretty low.

The good news is that that some communities offer group tutoring. Our local facility in Nashville, Accelerated Learning Center, boasts a 92% pass rate and offers help with both the clinical and NCLEX.

You might want to see if a tutoring center is available in your local area.