LPN to RN through testing?

mkcrturner · Nov 6, 2006

What ever happened to good old apprenticeship?? You work side by side with a master of the occupation in order to learn, they you begin doing the work.

Points from both sides are well noted. I agree that some classes are just a plain waste of time. Some of the classes to get the associates degree are ridiculous... English comp 1 & 2?? WHY? That is 2 semesters of something that should be able to test out of, or do a review type class to be sure I know how to write a paper. (despite my poor grammar while posting in the world wide web, i did take both and pass with a 4.0- really- LOL)

I personally feel that my time would have been better spent in a hospital learing real NURSING skills and applications. The college received a lot of money for classes that just do not relate. As long as I am able to communicate in a functioning way, it should not matter that I am able to understand Othello or not.

JMHO

RN34TX · Nov 6, 2006

Some of the classes to get the associates degree are ridiculous... English comp 1 & 2?? WHY? That is 2 semesters of something that should be able to test out of......

But you can test out of courses like that at the vast majority of colleges in the U.S.

CLEP offers several different versions of English exams that are worth 6 semester credits (One exam to gain credit for both Comp I and II).

Some of the versions are with or without essay, etc. but chances are that whatever school you are going to would grant challenge exam credit for passing at least one of their English exams because CLEP exams are accepted almost everywhere for credit. Some schools limit the number of courses that can be tested out of, but it's usually a liberal amount of credit hours.

There is no need to sit through Comp I and II classes if you already have the needed knowledge and writing skills.

RN34TX · Nov 6, 2006

Excelsior College's program is essentially a "test out". However, as most know, it is so difficult to self-study and tutorial publishers abound looking for a quick buck while not really vested in your success. Also, the pass rate is pretty low.

I was thinking the same thing when reading the OP but didn't want to be the one to open that can of worms. The Op was basically describing some major concepts/components of EC's RN program.

Interestingly enough, the OP presented more stringent requirements than what EC currently has in place for admission to such a program.

In addition, the program has become so controversial lately (partly due to the above reason) with regard to state board acceptance that I hardly would call it a good example for the OP's idea.

But I am torn because I can't completely agree or disagree with the OP or Caroladybelle.

Caroladybelle is right in that becoming clinically proficient to either meet or exceed one who has licensure above your current level does not justify granting you such licensure on clinical proficiency alone without the education.

However, working in two teaching hospitals with many nursing students at all levels coming and going over the years.......

It really makes me cringe to see LPN/LVN to RN students getting clinicals on med/surg units spending their time showing their instructor that they know how to draw up insulin correctly or some other skill very basic to most any LPN/LVN when that time could be better spent in an area less familiar to the LPN to RN student and they could really learn something new from a clinical standpoint.

Most of the things that LPN/LVN's aren't allowed to do in practice are things that they never let the RN students do in the first place like IV push meds and hanging blood.

So why even have these LPN/LVN to RN students doing clinicals on these types of floors in the first place? What exactly is the purpose here?

Making beds? Giving PO meds? Drawing up insulin? Exactly.

I believe that a hybrid of some kind between the two approaches to nursing education could work well someday if done the right way.

Allowing students with demonstrated competency to excel and keep moving forward in their educations without repetition of previously mastered material and skills while providing the same basics as the generic RN students to those LPN/LVN to RN students who need remediation due to lack of hospital experience, received weaker LPN/LVN educations, or other reasons, would be the ideal and can work someday, IMHO.

sarajasmine · Nov 6, 2006

I went through an LPN program in FL-1 yr in length and rec'd A.S. Cert. I worked as an LPN for 2 yrs and went back through Regents College-Now Excelsior College. I took some courses through community college, some through CLEP and the Nursing exams through Regents. It was a shorter and convenient way to get my RN. The A.S RN program requires a general education component, as well as the nursing exams and a clinical exam. They are now offered throughout the country. As I remember, the LPN course only included basic biology/A&P. There were also no leadership or management courses involved because that is not the traditional role as an LPN. The RN testing includes this. If you have taken any health management courses, perhaps they could wave that?! I have also worked with many LPN's, in my last 22 yrs as an RN who are excellent but, family commitments or financial restraints hinder them from returning to school for their RN. They should have some special grants set aside for LPN's/LVN's to complete their RN so that the Nurse doesn't have to be concerned about paying bills while completing the degree. Alot of the nursing journals have a variety of online programs designed for LPN's. Good luck!

quibron · Nov 7, 2006

I am concerned everyone wants to go in through the back door. Why stop at converting to an RN....Dont you want to be a doctor of medicine you should not have to go through the correct educational channels there either, you would not even need to be an LPN, just ask if you can watch a few ops and learn as you go, you obviously feel you have been denied the opportunity to become anything you desire to be, why stop at converting to "RN, sounds like a waste of time to me....If the world does not want education to come into any profession, close down the universities and colleges and EVERYONE just learn on the job, work alongside an accountant for a few months and that should qualify you eh? same goes for Engineering, Motor Mechanic, ENT specialist, cardiologist, Lawyer....that one should be easy, just watch them on TV and there you are, after all, 6 months of watching Law and Order should give us the qualification and experience, we would not even need to work in a law firm, just advertise your availability in the local rag.. Save a lot of money if no one had to study and have degrees for professions and I believe RN's are considered to be professionals now too are they not? Oh I know a beaut one, my son has obviously wasted his time doing a degree in law and a degree in Economics including Honours.....instead of all that money and time he used to get those degrees, the central banks should have just taken him in and showed him how to run the economy of the country, he has the know how, comes natural to him, what a waste of years doing the study and getting the degrees, hell with the ability he showed towards these areas back in junior school, he probably wasted those years by going and graduating from all them too.

If I sound sarcastic, then I do not apologise, however I am so sick of people wanting to be something they are obviously unable to be for one reason or another and not going through the proper channels...Gee's I hope they never let those that drive the luggage cart take over the job that the air controllers do, BUT!! think about it.....after all they do see a lot of take offs and landings, perhaps that would be enough to qualify them......come on out there, what are you all thinking of, you want to be something then you earn the right properly, there is no easy way or short cut. :rolleyes:

mixyplixy · Nov 7, 2006

Maybe RN's should take a test and be an MD?

texasmedicrnj · Nov 7, 2006

LPN to RN through testing would be a big down fall to nursing. The fact is LPN's do not have the assessment skills that you learn in a ADN or BSN program. If there is such a concern then do the nursing profession a favor and get your RN. I was onced a LPN and then went on to RN and I have to say it's a big diffrence in thinking. So, my view is yes there is a shortage, but we must also be educated to the point that patient care will not be affected.

crystalcross1 · Nov 7, 2006

As a LVN now I am not allowed to check for dilation on a pregnant mother or initiate care plans. that is about the only diffrence I have found so far.

I'm sure there are schooling and credit requirements that you must have to become an RN. I have no clue what LPN schooling is like, do you also focus on the nursing process and care plans the same as RN schooling does??? I would think there is some content that is required for you to have that isn't covered in LPN school. Just my thoughts....

suejara · Nov 7, 2006

I don't know about testing out or 5 years minimun experience. I think it depends a lot on that LPN's knowledge base and desire to become an RN. Currently I have 8 moths left of an LPN program in CT. I want my BSN but had to go the LPN route because although I have all my pre-reqs for my BSN, I couldn't get into a program.

I plan to get my BSN and I think LPN to RN bridge program are a great idea for people like me who already have the background (all the chem, math, A&P, micro, and psych). One problem I have seen when searching for LPN to RN bridge programs in CT is that none allow you to go from LPN to BSN only ASN.

I'll keep searching. Good luck to ALL nursing students out there.

dotherightthing · Nov 7, 2006

LPNs should be able to test out of more of the first year classes on the way to ADN. Most of the first months and maybe the first year of nursing classes is the stuff that LPNs are doing at work especially if they work in hospitals and skilled nursing areas. If you can test out of the the first year stuff, you have knowledge and skills.

ADNs don't really get much of the important liberal arts that BSNs get and BSNs come into the hospitals with only the book knowledge of much of what is done. There really should be a way to incorporate it all so that transition and progression is a bit easier for both LPNs and ADNs.

Hospitals could and should become more involved in the professional development of LPNs and ADNs-this is the place where skills could be evaluated and honed. Staff Nurse Specialists used to (maybe still do) have a big role in this.

RNs, somewhat threatened by this may not see it this way. And the nursing shortage is real and will become more so as the older nurses look for less demanding work and retire. Most nurses are 40 plus now.

Computer technology should have a larger role-everything is computerized. Lots of nurses now monitor their patients from behind a computer screen.

dotherightthing · Nov 7, 2006

Add that there should be some English speaking requirement for all foreign nurses. Have you ever tried to explain what was going with you to a nurse who really doesn't speak or understand English very well? This situation is more dangerous than a LPN short cut to RN.

Tweety, BSN, RN · Nov 7, 2006

It really makes me cringe to see LPN/LVN to RN students getting clinicals on med/surg units spending their time showing their instructor that they know how to draw up insulin correctly or some other skill very basic to most any LPN/LVN when that time could be better spent in an area less familiar to the LPN to RN student and they could really learn something new from a clinical standpoint.
Most of the things that LPN/LVN's aren't allowed to do in practice are things that they never let the RN students do in the first place like IV push meds and hanging blood.
So why even have these LPN/LVN to RN students doing clinicals on these types of floors in the first place? What exactly is the purpose here?
Making beds? Giving PO meds? Drawing up insulin? Exactly.

I see your point. But not all LPNs are coming from a hospital background. Many are in LTC or elsewhere. Also, they just have to prove competency. When I orient new hires, I still am expected to follow them when they pass their meds and do their assessments and check off an orientation sheet that they are competent, no matter how many years they have been doing nursing.

The LPN to RN programs here strive to give them unique experiences in L&D, ER, ICU, etc. and steer away from general med surg floors. But I'm sure the first classes they have to have an instructor when they draw up that insulin. It's probably more of a liability thing than actually learning how to draw up insulin. (And don't you draw up insulin with a witness anyway? j/k).

Also what we don't see is the hours they spend at home learning care plans, nursing diagnosis, labs, pharmacology etc. While we may see them makig beds and giving bedbaths, that's not their focus at all. Just as when I make a bed and a bath, it's just part of the job, but not my role as an RN.

Obviously there are going to be plenty of LPN's that aren't going to learn anything new because they know so much. But it's not all redundant. Just as I'm learning a lot in my RN to BSN courses in assessment, patho. and pharm. (much of it is redundant as I've had that in ADN school and have been doing it for 15 years), I'd like to think LPN to RN programs have some value and learning experiences for the open-minded.