LPN to RN through testing?

[mc3]

I just feel that I'm going to get a lot of flak on this, but here goes...Since there's such a nursing shortage, why not let LPN's take the RN test with some parameters? I just thought of a few:

5 years minimum experience

letter of recommendation from supervisor

must be IV certified ahead of time

More?

They would take the same test, study from the same study guides that are available. If someone felt especially weak in say, med conversions, they could take an algebra review or brush upon on what they learned in school beforehand.

If they didn't pass, well, do what the other students do and try, try again.

You're not going to pass the test if you're not up on the latest information, and it would happen whether or not you were an RN or LPN or BSN or MSN for that matter!

I just think it makes sense in light of the nursing shortage. There won't be a tremendously long wait to get into an LPN-RN school. It would make a hugh difference in patient care. It would also help to keep jobs from being filled from overseas workers. We really should try to hire citizens first, anyway. It seems the RN organizations would be diametrically opposed, but I don't understand why. After all, they are the ones that are crying the most about a nursing shortage and demanding action.

And, BTW, why don't state nursing organizations allow LPN's to joint?? They are nurses, right???

Just a thought..

mc3:nurse:

Kind of simplistic, I know, but I've always wondered about it...

[bmh-lpn]

I think it is a great idea! So long as you include all the preq.'s that is required for an AS Degree. I went to college for 2 years taking all but one or two classes that would get me the AS Degree. I did this before deciding to be a nurse. The LPN Class accepted me first. There was another two year waiting list for the RN program. I waited to long to decide on Nursing for a career to be placed on the waiting list for the RN Program. I just did not have the time to wait another 2 years. I am happy to be an LPN. If the RN program was set up this way I would consider to do it that way.

[dotherightthing]

I'm in favor of a "transition" from LPN to RN. LPNs shouldn't just test and then walk into the RN position, though some probably could. It wouldn't give the process enough standardization. However, a transition that includes testing, knowledge base, experience and additional formal education and training would make it a standardized transition. Every LPN could not acheive this, I think we would all be surprised at the smaller number who could actually make this transition and then we likely wouldn't have as much opposition to it. At this time, however, the current process is so expensive and time consuming that's it a real barrier for working LPNs who rely on their salary to support themselves and their families. Keep an open mind, this is something that could work.

[WishfulThinking]

I'll graduate in 4 wks from an LPN program. I'll have my AS and AA. The only class I need to take if I decide to go back for RN is Micro.

[dotherightthing]

Wishful Thinking

What part of the country are you in? That's a very straightforward way to acheive this goal. It's not like that in the Chicagoland area.

And I'm sure you're thinking of going for the RN considering the money difference and all.

[mkcrturner]

Believe you me.. I TRIED and it was a no-go. It was a huge mess, they wouldn't even allow me to transfer high school Biology since it had been over ten years ago. They said "we like to see the classes taken recently so they are fresh." Now Biology isn't even required, they want Micro. GRRRR

I had too many things to test out of for their liking. Don't even get me started on their 2 hour 'computer literacy' class that is required for everyone no matter what. And never mind the fact that I took one class online, and used to work for 6 years at a computer help desk....

Just give me my nursing classes- I'll be happy. :)

But you can test out of courses like that at the vast majority of colleges in the U.S.

CLEP offers several different versions of English exams that are worth 6 semester credits (One exam to gain credit for both Comp I and II).

Some of the versions are with or without essay, etc. but chances are that whatever school you are going to would grant challenge exam credit for passing at least one of their English exams because CLEP exams are accepted almost everywhere for credit. Some schools limit the number of courses that can be tested out of, but it's usually a liberal amount of credit hours.

There is no need to sit through Comp I and II classes if you already have the needed knowledge and writing skills.

[mkcrturner]

...... they wouldn't even allow me to transfer high school Biology since it had been over ten years ago. They said "we like to see the classes taken recently so they are fresh." Now Biology isn't even required, they want Micro. GRRRR

..........

Oops, couldnt edit.

to clarify- The reason i was upset with this is that I felt it was a waste of $1400 to take BIO, I felt ready to take the A&P without their pre-reg of BIO. If I had failed A&P due to lack of BIO knowledge...that would have been my fault. I realize the concept of pre-req's to build/prepare for other courses. But I was and am well versed in BIO :)

[General E. Speaking, RN, RN]

I'm in favor of a "transition" from LPN to RN. LPNs shouldn't just test and then walk into the RN position, though some probably could. It wouldn't give the process enough standardization. However, a transition that includes testing, knowledge base, experience and additional formal education and training would make it a standardized transition. Every LPN could not acheive this, I think we would all be surprised at the smaller number who could actually make this transition and then we likely wouldn't have as much opposition to it. At this time, however, the current process is so expensive and time consuming that's it a real barrier for working LPNs who rely on their salary to support themselves and their families. Keep an open mind, this is something that could work.

I totally agree. I just wrote in my journal about this very subject. If I take a Nutrition mini-mester in Dec, I will be able to apply to 2 transitional programs in Jan (they start in May). I will feel better having apps in more than one school. The problem is #2 school is full-time (at least summer classes are). My question is why would a transitional program be full-time? Surely they realize that if we are ALREADY nurses, we are probably WORKING somewhere. I understand that they "discourage" working too many hours, but I still need food and shelter during school. I have many years of Med-Surg experience and have managed to do pre-req's while working full-time (while maintaining a high GPA). It will be hard going to school, working full-time, keeping my sanity, studying, and not ignoring my family BUT it is only a year. I know I can do it. It would be nice if the programs were more working-LVN friendly.

Oh yea, don't even get me started on all the different pre-req's required by the colleges...

[Sheri257]

It really makes me cringe to see LPN/LVN to RN students getting clinicals on med/surg units spending their time showing their instructor that they know how to draw up insulin correctly or some other skill very basic to most any LPN/LVN when that time could be better spent in an area less familiar to the LPN to RN student and they could really learn something new from a clinical standpoint.

Most of the things that LPN/LVN's aren't allowed to do in practice are things that they never let the RN students do in the first place like IV push meds and hanging blood.

So why even have these LPN/LVN to RN students doing clinicals on these types of floors in the first place? What exactly is the purpose here?

Making beds? Giving PO meds? Drawing up insulin?

The LPN to RN programs here strive to give them unique experiences in L&D, ER, ICU, etc. and steer away from general med surg floors.

My program does the same. I wonder if it also depends upon the area. If the school has a lot of hospital clinical sites to choose from then, I think LVN's get a lot more exposure to different areas. If the school doesn't have access to as many clinical sites ... there's probably less opportunities.

Just as an example: at our last clinical site for 4th semester, we were supposed to do advanced med surg so ... we were able to work on many specialty floors like oncology, ortho, neuro, liver/pancreas, etc.

I realize that you can also get some of these patients on any med surg floor but, in smaller hospitals it usually was only occassionally. Cancer patients, for example, were very rare in the small hospitals because they usually are treated elsewhere.

But at this hospital, there was a large oncology floor, and the instructors made a point of assigning us these patients because we were studying this and other speciality areas at school. I know the LVN in my clinical group really enjoyed it because, she's an ER nurse and hadn't been on an oncology floor before.

Also ... I'm really surprized if RN students aren't allowed to do things like IV pushes and hang blood, because we've been doing that since 3rd semester. The LVN in my group, for example, was hanging blood all day yesterday.

Technically ... LVN's can hang blood in California under their license but some hospitals limit it to RN's only so, it's been great practice for the LVN's in the program ... especially the LVN's who don't work in acute care and haven't done IV pushes, blood, etc. before.

:typing

[mc3, ASN, RN]

Thank you, dotherightthing, you were more concise than I was able to be.

I'm getting a sense of "well, if I had to do it, so do you" from some of the posts here. That's the same kind of logic that's still pervasive in nursing today where nurses "eat their young"; they had to "suffer" so others have to "suffer".

Also, I keep saying, if you don't know the theories by studying, you wouldn't pass the NCLEX, right?

And, BTW, I am an LPN and HAPPY right where I am in Hospice! I'm proud of the fact that I'm teaching my team partner (an RN) all about hospice. We've helped each other tremendously. However, I have no intention of taking my education any further - never had - for a lot of reasons, mainly my age and the fact that I'm very happy where I'm at in life...

Like I've said, I was just wondering...

mc3

[RN34TX]

My program does the same. I wonder if it also depends upon the area. If the school has a lot of hospital clinical sites to choose from then, I think LVN's get a lot more exposure to different areas. If the school doesn't have access to as many clinical sites ... there's probably less opportunities.

That's probably true.

Although it was my med/surg days in large cities like Dallas where I saw this taking place, some schools still may have limited sites to choose from regardless of size I guess, with competition for clinical sites from other schools in the area.

so ... I'm really surprized if RN students aren't allowed to do things like IV pushes and hang blood, because we've been doing that since 3rd semester. The LVN in my group, for example, was hanging blood all day yesterday.

That's how I think it should be in TX as well.

If you are going to be hanging blood and pushing meds as a new RN, the best way to get started is under a watchful eye of a clinical instructor, not after you graduate.

[RN34TX]

I see your point. But not all LPNs are coming from a hospital background. Many are in LTC or elsewhere. Also, they just have to prove competency. When I orient new hires, I still am expected to follow them when they pass their meds and do their assessments and check off an orientation sheet that they are competent, no matter how many years they have been doing nursing.

True.

But this competency assurance could be done in a lab station setting and expedited a little faster to give these students more of what they don't already have a background in.

To those students who struggled or didn't do so well in the lab stations due to limited med/surg experience, etc. then it's off to a med/surg rotation for you.

For those who flew through the lab stations with no problem, then it's time to keep going to to other areas less familiar to them.

I'm sure it can't be quite that easy but it could be better at least at the schools I have familiarity with.

The LPN to RN programs here strive to give them unique experiences in L&D, ER, ICU, etc. and steer away from general med surg floors......Obviously there are going to be plenty of LPN's that aren't going to learn anything new because they know so much. But it's not all redundant. Just as I'm learning a lot in my RN to BSN courses in assessment, patho. and pharm. (much of it is redundant as I've had that in ADN school and have been doing it for 15 years), I'd like to think LPN to RN programs have some value and learning experiences for the open-minded.

I totally agree, and every LPN will learn new stuff because no one has expertise in every area of nursing so I know it's not redundant. Glad to hear that your area steers them in those directions and less med/surg.

And yes (sigh) I'm learning a lot in the BSN program as well. More than I want sometimes.

[cctparamedic]

I Think that paramedics with college back-ground and x-years of experience should be allowed to enter a LPN/LVN to RN class.