i don't want my post to be the venue for an LPN-RN debate...this is just my opinion about the topic...
i understand that not EVERYBODY want to be an RN and that NOT everyone stays as an LPN...different situations calls for a different approach...we as nurses should be bonded and not debate amongst ourselves of who has the best career...it's hard enough explaining to the lay person what we do and how important we are and not "just nurses"...that we don't need to badmouth each other...
First off, I know I haven't read all the posts that were ever posted on this board, but I have never read any that made me think that there are nurses here with BSNs that think they are better than me-ASN. Did I miss something?
Second, why would you choose to practice as an LPN when you already had your BSN and said that you had worked as an RN? If for nothing else, I would think the money would make enough of a difference to want to practice as an RN rather than an LPN.
Is it that you just don't want the responsibilty the RN title would entail? Because as stated above, when LPNs are working, RNs are responsible for what they do, don't do or mistakenly do.
Anyway, not trying to flame you or anything but just trying to understand where you're coming from.
! I really believe that the extra education is a load of bull except for perhaps pathophys and pharmacology which anyone can study on their own or take an independent class.
I'm sorry you find the extra education a "load of bull", but many of us who did take the extra step certainly do not find it a "load of bull." I think that your comments may be percieved as being offensive; certainly you would feel the same if I said LPN school was "a load of bull." Thanks.
Why waste our time on this divisive issue? You think the physicians spend all their time squabling over which specialty is "more trained" or "more educated"?
And to answer your question, they sure do. Orthopedic surgery, for example, is often coined "real man's medicine." Specialties are more favored over general and family practice. It's called human nature.
Physicians may have an informal dialogue about the relevance of any particular specialty but they don't resort to some of the hard core tactics such as the BON in my state MD which is making a concerted effort to move the practice of nursing to all BSN. Donna Dorsey, who is the commander and chief of afore-mentioned organization came to my issues class to give a fave lecture to her buddy Dr. Arnold my professor and told us all about it. What's worse is that most of the students in my class are newbies to the field of nursing so they were just eating her **** up!
My comments were meant to re-assure LPN and other nurses of my confidence in their abilities and further communicate my personal feeling that the "extra" education that I have received doesn't appear to have a real bearing on the immediate practice of nursing right now. I can see where my use of terms such as "bull" may be pejorative, so I am sorry for that, I guess.
Specializes in ER, PED'S, NICU, CLINICAL M., ONCO..
We are particularly sensitized with that issue because with the emergence of the LPN figure on 1965, RNs almost disappear.
When balance everything down then it is difficult to raise it again to the anterior level.
Nowadays, because the nursing regulation, the LPN figure almost disappears in most hospitals of Buenos Aires Capital, however in the rest of the country they remain majority. In our old regulation, LPNs didn't require a high school preparation to get in, so the social level of that manpower was too low. That's why the general concept of nursing profession of lay person (including most doctors) is also too low.
I agree, of course there are many LPNs that after so many years training, courses and so on, got a high level of preparation, it isn't the rule however.
Specializes in ER, PED'S, NICU, CLINICAL M., ONCO..
We are particularly sensitized with that issue because with the emergence of the LPN figure on 1965, RNs almost disappear.
When balance everything down then it is difficult to raise it again to the anterior level.
Nowadays, because the nursing regulation, the LPN figure almost disappears in most hospitals of Buenos Aires Capital, however in the rest of the country they remain majority. In our old regulation, LPNs didn't require a high school preparation to get in, so the social level of that manpower was too low. That's why the general concept of nursing profession of lay person (including most doctors) is also too low.
I agree, of course there are many LPNs that after so many years training, courses and so on, got a high level of preparation, it isn't the rule however.
I have been following this thread and it has turned into a flame war between the RN's and LPNs. As we all know, "Nurses" have to work together as a cohesive team.....there is also a secondary argument that I have seen come up many times, not only in this thread but in many others as well and that is the term "Professional" nurse. There is a difference between a Practical Nurse (LPN) and a Professional Nurse (RN)...I did not know this until I became familiar with my states nurse practice act so I will quote it here and maybe it will clarify the term "Professional Nurse".
Florida Nurse Practice Act 464.003
(3)(a) "Practice of professional nursing"- means the performance of those acts requiring substantial specialized knowledge, judgement, and nursing skill based upon applied principles of psychological, biological, physical, and social sciences which shall include, but not limited to:
1. The observation, assessment, nursing diagnosis, planning, intervention, and evaluation of care; health teaching and counseling of the ill, injured, or infirm; and the promotion of wellness, maintenance of health, and prevention of illness of others.
2. The administration of medications and treatments as prescribed or authorized by a duly licensed practitioner aurthorized by the laws of this state to prescribe such medications and treatments.
3. The supervision and teaching of other personnel in the theory and performance of any of the above acts.
(b) "Practice of Practical Nursing" means the performance of selected acts, including the administration of treatments and medications, in the care of the ill, injured, or infirm and the promotion of wellness, maintenance of health, and prevention of illness of others under the direction of a registered nurse, a licensed physician, a licensed osteopathic physician, a licensed podiatric physician, or a licensed dentist.
The professional nurse and the practical nurse shall be responsible and accountable for making decisions that are based upon the individuals educational preparation and experience in nursing.
(4) "Registered Nurse" means any person licensed in this state to practice professional nursing.
(5) "Licensed Practical Nurse" means any person licensed in this state to practice practical nursing.
I hope this clarifys some of the throwing around of the term professional. However, I do agree that no matter what your title may be, we should ALL act as medical professionals.
On the BSN LPN issue. I think it's great. I say let 'em all get BSNs! What difference does it make what they do with their free time and money? [/b]
Haven't logged on in a while, been busy with my son starting school and with my getting ready to start back to school in January, this thread certainly caught my eye... lots of hairs raised on everyone's necks I'm sure, just as it did mine, can I add my 2 cents worth about the money thing.... let's be realistic after all isn't it usually about the money? Well in my case I suppose not, an LVN in Texas for 13 years, will be starting my ADN like I said in January only to take a $1.40/hour paycut once I am an RN. Why am I doing this? Good question..... the number one reason is to work on the floor that is my passion that only staffs RN's. Now I am not "flaming" here because I am not a regular here by any means, I just think everyone needs to reeeeeeally think about how things will be taken before they click that submit button.
Specializes in LTC,Hospice/palliative care,acute care.
So an apple is not an orange and a banana is not alima bean.An RN is not an LPN is not an aide...(I know a few LPN's with "BSN"s" They did not pass their boards and are still working under their LPN licenses...)
I have been following this thread and it has turned into a flame war between the RN's and LPNs. As we all know, "Nurses" have to work together as a cohesive team.....there is also a secondary argument that I have seen come up many times, not only in this thread but in many others as well and that is the term "Professional" nurse. There is a difference between a Practical Nurse (LPN) and a Professional Nurse (RN)...I did not know this until I became familiar with my states nurse practice act so I will quote it here and maybe it will clarify the term "Professional Nurse".
Florida Nurse Practice Act 464.003
(3)(a) "Practice of professional nursing"- means the performance of those acts requiring substantial specialized knowledge, judgement, and nursing skill based upon applied principles of psychological, biological, physical, and social sciences which shall include, but not limited to:
1. The observation, assessment, nursing diagnosis, planning, intervention, and evaluation of care; health teaching and counseling of the ill, injured, or infirm; and the promotion of wellness, maintenance of health, and prevention of illness of others.
2. The administration of medications and treatments as prescribed or authorized by a duly licensed practitioner aurthorized by the laws of this state to prescribe such medications and treatments.
3. The supervision and teaching of other personnel in the theory and performance of any of the above acts.
(b) "Practice of Practical Nursing" means the performance of selected acts, including the administration of treatments and medications, in the care of the ill, injured, or infirm and the promotion of wellness, maintenance of health, and prevention of illness of others under the direction of a registered nurse, a licensed physician, a licensed osteopathic physician, a licensed podiatric physician, or a licensed dentist.
The professional nurse and the practical nurse shall be responsible and accountable for making decisions that are based upon the individuals educational preparation and experience in nursing.
(4) "Registered Nurse" means any person licensed in this state to practice professional nursing.
(5) "Licensed Practical Nurse" means any person licensed in this state to practice practical nursing.
I hope this clarifys some of the throwing around of the term professional. However, I do agree that no matter what your title may be, we should ALL act as medical professionals.
Fortunately not all states are limited to that narrow banded thinking on what constitutes a professional nurse. NC, in my opinion, has a better approach as indicated below:
21-36.0221. LICENSE REQUIRED
a) No cap, pin, uniform, insignia or title shall be used to represent to the public that an unlicensed person is a registered nurse or a licensed practical nurse as defined in G.S. 90-171.43.
(b) The repetitive performance of a common task or procedure which does not require the professional judgment of a registered nurse or licensed practical nurse shall not be considered the practice of nursing for which a license is required.
The term "professional" is not used in the NC statutes to differentiate between a RN and a LPN. It is applied to both, as both are considered professionals in the state of NC. The difference is listed as Registered Nurse or Licensed Practical Nurse. The NC BON saw how divisive it is to apply the term "professional" in the manner applied the by the FL BON and went to great lengths to ensure it did happen in our state.
Divide and conquer is an old adage. Those who would like to "keep nurses in the places" don't need to divide us. We do that job quite nicely ourselves. "You are not a professional as you do not have the level of education I possess. I don't care what your license says, you are merely less than me." No RNs and LPNs are not exactly the same thing. ADNs, BSNs, MSNs, and PhD Ns are not exactly the same thing either. But in the broad sense we are all Nurses. Our ultimate goal should be the providing our patients with the best care possible, not this petty oneupsmanship that is running rampant amounst us. Get a grip people. We need to quit squabbling amoungst ourselves. Start acting like the professionals we all profess ourselves to be.
Fortunately not all states are limited to that narrow banded thinking on what constitutes a professional nurse. NC, in my opinion, has a better approach as indicated below:
21-36.0221. LICENSE REQUIRED
a) No cap, pin, uniform, insignia or title shall be used to represent to the public that an unlicensed person is a registered nurse or a licensed practical nurse as defined in G.S. 90-171.43.
(b) The repetitive performance of a common task or procedure which does not require the professional judgment of a registered nurse or licensed practical nurse shall not be considered the practice of nursing for which a license is required.
The term "professional" is not used in the NC statutes to differentiate between a RN and a LPN. It is applied to both, as both are considered professionals in the state of NC. The difference is listed as Registered Nurse or Licensed Practical Nurse. The NC BON saw how divisive it is to apply the term "professional" in the manner applied the by the FL BON and went to great lengths to ensure it did happen in our state.
Divide and conquer is an old adage. Those who would like to "keep nurses in the places" don't need to divide us. We do that job quite nicely ourselves. "You are not a professional as you do not have the level of education I possess. I don't care what your license says, you are merely less than me." No RNs and LPNs are not exactly the same thing. ADNs, BSNs, MSNs, and PhD Ns are not exactly the same thing either. But in the broad sense we are all Nurses. Our ultimate goal should be the providing our patients with the best care possible, not this petty oneupsmanship that is running rampant amounst us. Get a grip people. We need to quit squabbling amoungst ourselves. Start acting like the professionals we all profess ourselves to be.
If you dont mind me asking...how are RNs and LPNs defined as listed in GS 90-171.43? The parts of the NC Nurse Practice Act that you listed are very broad, is there a more specific definition within the NC Nurse Practice Act?
MrsWampthang, BSN, RN
511 Posts
First off, I know I haven't read all the posts that were ever posted on this board, but I have never read any that made me think that there are nurses here with BSNs that think they are better than me-ASN. Did I miss something?
Second, why would you choose to practice as an LPN when you already had your BSN and said that you had worked as an RN? If for nothing else, I would think the money would make enough of a difference to want to practice as an RN rather than an LPN.
Is it that you just don't want the responsibilty the RN title would entail? Because as stated above, when LPNs are working, RNs are responsible for what they do, don't do or mistakenly do.
Anyway, not trying to flame you or anything but just trying to understand where you're coming from.
Pam:confused: