Lpn & asn are are being phased out.

mushyrn, BSN, RN · May 15, 2016

Less education no...less "fluff" yes...I don't need a course in "nursing theory" and "nursing informatics" to be a good nurse.

It is this type of crap that is so saddening for our profession. Nursing, again, is the only "profession" that puts down other members for having an appropriately-leveled education to legitimately be called a profession. A Bachelors degree is more than fluff and pomp. You DO learn more than an ADN and you DO have a more well-rounded college education.

This is NOT calling ADN/LPNs stupid or less capable. I have no idea why so many ADN/LPN nurses are adamantly against getting a Bachelors degree. It can only help nursing as a whole.

realnursealso/LPN, LPN · May 15, 2016

Good lord, you continue to speak of this as if it has one iota of truth to it. It was started and spread by a UNION!

CanadianRN16 · May 15, 2016

Less education no...less "fluff" yes...I don't need a course in "nursing theory" and "nursing informatics" to be a good nurse. Clinical skills are far more important than fluff. I graduated from an ASN program (that has since been phased out) from Penn State. One of the best nursing programs in my area. In fact the local hospitals loved our graduates, an hired far more of our new grads than the BSN program from a private university a mile away.

For the record, I'm not disagreeing with you...

AJJKRN · May 15, 2016

While I don't think phasing out, such as in firing, LPNs and ADNs, is the proper way to go about things, I do feel that making the BSN the new minimum standard entry to the profession is a good way to go. Nurses cry out for respect and a seat at the table, and yet, one can become a nurse in less than 16 months. No modern profession allows this. A Bachelors level degree provides a person with a well-rounded education outside the scope of their individual career paths and opens doors to many different paths in life.
If we want nursing to be some side-trade job, fine, continue to bash nurses with a Bachelors degree and let people with less than 2 years of schooling become nurses. However, if we want respect for our career and educational level, a BSN as entry to the profession needs to be mandatory ASAP. Yeah, feelings will be hurt and insecurities will be brought to light, but higher education should be the goal for our career, ALWAYS. Nobody should be bashed for having a higher level of education, and nursing is the only "profession" which does that to its members.

Yet another indoctrinated opinion :facepalm: So whom exactly is bashing BSN's in this thread? (Especially the BSN's that obtained their nursing degree within 16 to 18 months!).

Looking in a mirror and finding that "hurt feelings and insecurities" are more of a personal reflection may just prove to be more difficult to do than actually walking a mile in someone else's nurse mates.

I'm fairly sure that it's mainly nurses bashing other nurses that really hurts our profession...and the lack of nurses advocating for our profession on Capitol Hill.

Oh well, should have just kept snacking on my popcorn :sarcastic:

lindseylpn · May 15, 2016

It all depends on where you live. In my area LPNs and ADNs are going strong in all areas. Only 1 hospital within an hour of me requires BSN within 2 years of employment. Several of the hospitals near me are even phasing LPNs back IN, I see the job postings daily.

kbrn2002, ADN, RN · May 15, 2016

This is such a geographically linked topic that it is almost impossible to debate.

Where I live, an ASN/ADN has no problem finding employment and LPN's while not hired as much in the hospital setting are still very much in demand in LTC, home health, school nursing and clinics. Just about any non-acute health care setting really.

But I understand that is not the case for many other areas. It all really comes down to where you live or maybe more importantly where you are able to live. Not everybody is capable of packing up and moving across the country to find a job, if you find yourself in that position you need to get the degree that will give you the best chance of finding employment where you live.

ashley2757 · May 15, 2016

I have heard some talk about the BSN possibly becoming the entry level for nursing. But that has not happened yet. I know that research has found that patient safety is related to the educational level of the nurse. They found that patients who were cared for by a nurse with a BSN had a lower chance of dying during their hospital stay. With that being said I think that is why hospitals are preferring BSN nurses over ADN nurses. I know of one hospital in the area (Tampa) that is no longer accepting any ADN nurses and is asking their currently employed ADN nurses to go back and get their BSN. I was a LPN, just finished an LPN to ADN program ðŸ˜, and plan on starting an ADN to BSN program in August. I can honestly say that I learned WHOLE LOT more when I completed the ADN program and I believe that I am a much better nurse now. With that being said I would expect that to be the case when I go from ADN to BSN. I think that their is a shift towards higher education. There is even talk that the nurse practitioner will soon need to have a DNP to practice. I honestly think more education is a great thing because it promotes patients safety.

angelicGrace · May 15, 2016

I have heard some talk about the BSN possibly becoming the entry level for nursing. But that has not happened yet. I know that research has found that patient safety is related to the educational level of the nurse. They found that patients who were cared for by a nurse with a BSN had a lower chance of dying during their hospital stay. With that being said I think that is why hospitals are preferring BSN nurses over ADN nurses. I know of one hospital in the area (Tampa) that is no longer accepting any ADN nurses and is asking their currently employed ADN nurses to go back and get their BSN. I was a LPN, just finished an LPN to ADN program [emoji16], and plan on starting an ADN to BSN program in August. I can honestly say that I learned WHOLE LOT more when I completed the ADN program and I believe that I am a much better nurse now. With that being said I would expect that to be the case when I go from ADN to BSN. I think that their is a shift towards higher education. There is even talk that the nurse practitioner will soon need to have a DNP to practice. I honestly think more education is a great thing because it promotes patients safety.

The IOM released a statement some years ago encouraging facilities to be staffed with 80% BSN prepared nurses by 2020.

This statement was issued based in the research quoted above. Patient safety being he lead concern. A higher educated nurse is a better prepared nurse by the statistics.

My school phased out the ASN program and has gone strictly BSN keeping inline with what the local hospitals are looking for. I was one of the last accepted into the ASN program but was required to change to BSN if I wanted to stay in their program. I didn't mind it because I would prefer my BSN but I know students who changed to local technical colleges and plan to get their ASN and go back for their BSN later.

The largest hospital in our area is offering bonuses, tuition payments and raises for ASN nurses willing to pursue their RN to BSN so that they can retain their current ASN prepared workforce. My best friend is going this route and has received two raises since she started back to school. (One at the end of each semester she completed).

My great aunt who has been a nurse my entire life attended a nurse training program operated by a hospital and said she saw much of the same arguments when they transition to educating nurses in colleges and universities hit its peak. But she said you could tell a difference in the hospital trained nurses and collegiate trained nurses. She said she would have gone back herself but at the time there was no push for it until the advent of nurse practitioners and then she felt too old to see further education.

She fully believes this is a great thing and encourages me to seek all the education I can so I can be the most prepared that I can be.

geek, BSN · May 15, 2016

The IOM released a statement some years ago encouraging facilities to be staffed with 80% BSN prepared nurses by 2020.
This statement was issued based in the research quoted above. Patient safety being he lead concern. A higher educated nurse is a better prepared nurse by the statistics.
My school phased out the ASN program and has gone strictly BSN keeping inline with what the local hospitals are looking for. I was one of the last accepted into the ASN program but was required to change to BSN if I wanted to stay in their program. I didn't mind it because I would prefer my BSN but I know students who changed to local technical colleges and plan to get their ASN and go back for their BSN later.
The largest hospital in our area is offering bonuses, tuition payments and raises for ASN nurses willing to pursue their RN to BSN so that they can retain their current ASN prepared workforce. My best friend is going this route and has received two raises since she started back to school. (One at the end of each semester she completed).
.

Wow must be nice. When our local hospital went magnet they just completely cut off the new adn grads who had done clinicals in THAT hospital . Where are you?

NotYourMamasRN · May 15, 2016

So I lived in two different regions as a nurse and they varied greatly.

In the first region, most hospitals only hired BSN grads and ADN grads got hired at LTC settings and some hospitals. I got lucky because I worked in the hospital while in nursing school as an ED tech, so I had multiple offers after graduating. There were literally about 8 different colleges and universities with nursing programs there.

In that first region, they were grandfathering in the ADN and LPNs at hospitals but requiring to get their BSN in x amount of time. Only a few of the hospitals had LPNs.

In this second region, there is only one local nursing school at a community college in the middle of nowhere. So most hospital nurses have an ADN. Some decide to advance to their BSN and beyond. Being a small town, advancing in career has little to do with your degree level and more to do with your "county last name". I have watched "county last names" get promoted to positions with an ADN and 3-5 years of experience over BSN grads with 5+ years experience, who are new to the area.

It is competitive here to get into the hospital as a new grad and many report getting stuck in LTC. Then hospitals not wanting to hire them as experienced nurses after a few years in LTC. For example, on of my old coworkers had 2 years of LTC experience and got started at the hospital after applying many times, as a new grad. I am not giving an opinion on this, I am just expressing what has happened in the regions I lived.

mushyrn, BSN, RN · May 15, 2016

Yet another indoctrinated opinion So whom exactly is bashing BSN's in this thread? (Especially the BSN's that obtained their nursing degree within 16 to 18 months!). :

Indoctrinated opinion? This is just where our society is going. Higher education levels command higher respect in general. No lawyer, doctor (medical or "real" Ph.D. Doctor), engineer, other profession advocates for less education to work in their circles. Look through these forums, plenty of ADN/LPN nurses are bashing BSNs and saying it's a "waste" (not to mention the ridiculous idea that BSNs are less prepared than ADNs). Again, if we want to turn nursing into some trade side job in this century, forget higher education and all of the progress we've made.

The 18-month BSN degree generally requires a previous bachelors degree, which already provided the general well-rounded university level education. I'm all for allowing ADNs and LPNs to continue working, especially with the experience many of them have. However, going forward, the BSN needs to be the standard entry with reflective pay.

CanadianRN16 · May 15, 2016

Indoctrinated opinion? This is just where our society is going. Higher education levels command higher respect in general. No lawyer, doctor (medical or "real" Ph.D. Doctor), engineer, other profession advocates for less education to work in their circles. Look through these forums, plenty of ADN/LPN nurses are bashing BSNs and saying it's a "waste" (not to mention the ridiculous idea that BSNs are less prepared than ADNs). Again, if we want to turn nursing into some trade side job in this century, forget higher education and all of the progress we've made.
The 18-month BSN degree generally requires a previous bachelors degree, which already provided the general well-rounded university level education. I'm all for allowing ADNs and LPNs to continue working, especially with the experience many of them have. However, going forward, the BSN needs to be the standard entry with reflective pay.

In most of Canada (excluding Quebec) they phased out 2 year degrees and made that the standard for LPNs about 10 years ago. The 2 year year degree nurses were grandfathered in, and it was a relatively smooth transition.

In Quebec, a 2 year degree gets you the RN but on a different pay scale. They didn't go about the plans for phasing out very well...So there's continued sentiments that are equivalent to those in this thread.

In my province of Ontario, they have increased standards for entry of practice which mirror the US (which is nice for me as I'm American and can work in the states with relative ease). IMO it only helps the improve profession and promotes a culture of continued education and safety.

If they can do it in Canada, surely it's possible in such a county as 'great' and 'amazing' as the US...right?