Local hospital now says "BSN or MSN preferred" for all bedside positions?!

[Nola009]

My goodness, I was just getting used to seeing "BSN preferred" at many a big-city hospital in my region. It's not such a thing at the smaller community hospitals in my area as of now, though. Being that it is my Sunday off, I thought I'd look at the nearest big city hospitals' job postings and one in the area has the gumption to request not only BSN-holding, but *MSN* -holding nurses for all bedside positions. Not management. Bedside, direct patient care nurses. Do my eyes deceive me? Has anyone else seen or heard of this going on in their area too??

I'm sure more education is always a good thing, but COME ON! Do you think this hospital is asking too much?

[klone, MSN, RN]

Am I misunderstanding you? Are you saying that ADN's at your school did not take patho or pharm? I really doubt that there is a nursing program out there that does not have patho or pharm, at least built into the program.

My ADN program did not have patho or pharm. I have never taken a pharmacology class in my life.

[kaydensmom01]

My ADN program did not have patho or pharm. I have never taken a pharmacology class in my life.

So your ADN program did not have patho and pharm built into it? Highly, highly doubtful since it has to in order to be approved by any Board of Nursing!

[AmyRN303, BSN, RN]

My ADN program didn't have a specific pharm or patho class but it was built in along the way with each system.

[PG2018]

I was trying to be generous to the BSN by allowing for the general electives, which supposedly is one of the main reasons why BSN should be mandatory, to be a year's worth of "enlightening", but you're right, it's probably less valuable than I tried to give it credit for.

I'm all for encouraging well rounded, enlightened nurses. I disagree that getting a bachelor's degree is the only or even the best way to achieve that.

There were 12 years between my first bachelors degree and nursing school which were certainly enlightening and contributed to me being more well rounded. Compared to those 12 years of life experience, my bachelors degree electives made an almost immeasurably small contribution. So then why shouldn't all nurses be required to spend 12 years doing random things before they are allowed to start nursing school?

My previous bachelors degree has likely helped my nursing practice, so why are nurses allowed to practice without a BSN plus another bachelors degree?

Speaking of enlightenment, LSD is often argued to make people more enlightened, why should anyone allowed to be a nurse who hasn't taken LSD?

I'm guessing your thesis here is that nurses shouldn't be required to achieve the BSN in order to become licensed..?

[klone, MSN, RN]

So your ADN program did not have patho and pharm built into it? Highly, highly doubtful since it has to in order to be approved by any Board of Nursing!

No, it did not. Every state board of nursing has different requirements, and those requirements do change over time. It did offer a pharmacology class, but it was an optional class, offered during summer session.

Edited to add: I just looked at my old school's website. Pharm is now a required part of the program. When I went to school, it was not.

[PatMac10,RN, RN]

In my RN to BSN program there is no individual patho/pharm course required as a prerequisite. There is no pharm/Patho course in the curriculum, this seems to be the case with many RN to BSN programs.

Sent from my iPhone using allnurses

[kaydensmom01]

No it did not. Every state board of nursing has different requirements, and those requirements do change over time. It did offer a pharmacology class, but it was an optional class, offered during summer session. Edited to add: I just looked at my old school's website. Pharm is now a required part of the program. When I went to school, it was not.[/quote'] So you do not know any pharm or patho??? I think you misunderstood somewhere, because I know that ALL programs have to teach pharm and patho- whether it is in a sesperate class or built into the program. By what you are telling me you are a RN and do not know pharm or patho....

[MunoRN, RN]

No, it did not. Every state board of nursing has different requirements, and those requirements do change over time. It did offer a pharmacology class, but it was an optional class, offered during summer session.

Edited to add: I just looked at my old school's website. Pharm is now a required part of the program. When I went to school, it was not.

There are three different 'forces' that have drastically changed ADN curriculum over the last 10 years or so. Accreditation bodies (namely the NLN for ADN programs), have increased credit and pre-req requirements to more closely mirror BSN programs. State BON's set requirements in certain topic areas, such setting the number of class/clinical hours that must be devoted to mental health, OB, etc which are the same for both ADN and BSN programs. Then there are articulation agreements between ADN and BSN programs, which are legally required in 14 states and extremely common everywhere else. These agreements often require ADN programs to adopt the same curriculum and pre-requisites as their partner BSN programs, minus the portion that will constitute part of the ADN to BSN program.

[klone, MSN, RN]

So you do not know any pharm or patho??? I think you misunderstood somewhere because I know that ALL programs have to teach pharm and patho- whether it is in a sesperate class or built into the program. By what you are telling me you are a RN and do not know pharm or patho....[/quote']

No, what I'm saying that I was not *taught* pharm or patho in my ADN program. Nowhere did I say I was ignorant on these subjects.

And I did not misunderstand anything. I'm a highly intelligent person, you will just have to give me the benefit of the doubt on this one that I know what I'm talking about when I say THOSE SUBJECTS WERE NOT PART OF OUR PROGRAM.

[kaydensmom01]

No, what I'm saying that I was not *taught* pharm or patho in my ADN program. Nowhere did I say I was ignorant on these subjects.

And I did not misunderstand anything. I'm a highly intelligent person, you will just have to give me the benefit of the doubt on this one that I know what I'm talking about when I say THOSE SUBJECTS WERE NOT PART OF OUR PROGRAM.

Oh okay so your nursing program taught you how to pop pills, give injections, hang fluids but did not *teach* you about what you were popping, injecting, and hanging?

Your school did not teach you about CHF, MI's, COPD, MS? What did you learn in nursing school then?

[klone, MSN, RN]

Your school did not teach you about CHF, MI's, COPD, MS? What did you learn in nursing school then?

I think you and I have different definitions of what the formal education of pathophysiology and pharmacology entail.

If that was all that was necessary to teach those concepts, then there wouldn't be a requirement now in programs for actual CLASSES specifically in pathophys or pharmacology.

I will say it again and then I'm done because frankly it's ridiculous that you're arguing with me about what I was and was not taught in my nursing program.

When I was in the program, pharmacology was an optional class. I.E. not a REQUIRED part of the program. Now, it is a required class, due in most part to the things Muno described above. Same for pathophysiology - some concepts were taught, but an actual CLASS devoted to pathophysiology was not a required part of the program beyond A&P.

[NurseGirl525, ASN, RN]

I will be starting my ADN program in the fall. I will be taking 2 stand alone pharm classes and a stand alone patho class. I have said it before and I will say it again the NCLEX for a ADN and BSN is the same. So that means both routes give you the same amount of nursing knowledge. I have looked in depth at both programs and the only difference is the amount of gen ed. classes a BSN takes. The pay scale and NCLEX needs to be vastly different to make me understand what the difference is. A few more papers being written does not make one a better nurse than another.