Local hospital now says "BSN or MSN preferred" for all bedside positions?!

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My goodness, I was just getting used to seeing "BSN preferred" at many a big-city hospital in my region. It's not such a thing at the smaller community hospitals in my area as of now, though. Being that it is my Sunday off, I thought I'd look at the nearest big city hospitals' job postings and one in the area has the gumption to request not only BSN-holding, but *MSN* -holding nurses for all bedside positions. Not management. Bedside, direct patient care nurses. Do my eyes deceive me? Has anyone else seen or heard of this going on in their area too??

I'm sure more education is always a good thing, but COME ON! Do you think this hospital is asking too much?

Specializes in Critical Care.

In order to be accredited both ADN and BSN Nursing curriculum must involve both pathophysiology and pharmacology to essentially the same level. I think people get confused when different programs break down their programs differently in their course catalog, even though there is essentially no difference.

Some programs completely separate out certain aspects like pathophys, statistics/EBP, etc, while others integrate the same curriculum throughout the program. For some reason those that separate out those courses are seen as being more advanced, even though the more "advanced" trend is towards concept based curriculum, which usually involves a more integrated curriculum.

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Specializes in Outpatient Psychiatry.
Am I misunderstanding you? Are you saying that ADN's at your school did not take patho or pharm? I really doubt that there is a nursing program out there that does not have patho or pharm, at least built into the program.

You're correct. They did not. Their pharm class was pharm math only and whatever else they learned was done inside their medsurg classes.-

I was referring to stand alone classes which I think are great.

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You're correct. They did not. Their pharm class was pharm math only and whatever else they learned was done inside their medsurg classes.-

I was referring to stand alone classes which I think are great.

Let me correct you here - we did in fact take said mentioned courses each on their own, (aka 'stand alone') when obtaining our ADN. Perhaps you misunderstood your friends?

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For my PN program we had a stand-alone pharm class where we learned the basics of medication administration, routes, absorbtion, etc.

We learned more about the details of individual meds in the various med-surg classes. BP meds in cardio, proton-pump inhibitors in GI/GU, etc. I'm going to guess this is what the student meant by "whatever else we learned, we learned in the med/surg classes". I really, really doubt that any ADN program's pharm course consists only of drug calculations.

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what a crock

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Specializes in PCCN.

I personally think this is due to HCAHPS and the public perception. Hospitals think they will have better" patient satisfaction" if the think their pts are being cared for "such high degree'd nurses" "WoW come to St Mattress hospital, where we have all Masters prepared Nurses to wipe your behinds up and bring you meal trays " LOL

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Specializes in CRNA, Finally retired.
A couple of schools offer the MSN in specialty areas such as infection control, informatics, patient advocacy, holistic nursing, case management, etc. So there are options other than admin, leadership, education or the typical APRN courses.

My point, exactly. I consider these "soft" majors that don't require the clinical component of brick and mortar school, so it's much easier to get these degrees online. However, in the two programs I checked out, it would be impossible for anyone fresh with ADN to get MSN in two years because of the amount of experience and general ed. courses required.

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Specializes in Outpatient Psychiatry.
Let me correct you here - we did in fact take said mentioned courses each on their own, (aka 'stand alone') when obtaining our ADN. Perhaps you misunderstood your friends?

We went to the same school?

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You're correct. They did not. Their pharm class was pharm math only and whatever else they learned was done inside their medsurg classes.-

I was referring to stand alone classes which I think are great.

Well I can assure you that they went over patho and pharm, even if it was built into the program. How can you think that they are not learning the same patho and pharm as you just because it is not a separate course? My patho and pharm was built into my program, and I did not just learn drug calculations- in order to be approved by the Board of Nursing a school has to have patho and pharm. I know patho and pharm very in-depth. In my RN-BSN program we do not take a pharm or a patho because we already learned it in our ADN-RN program, we only have classes such as leadership and management, health policy, etc. You can't assume that your knowledge on patho and pharm is superior to an ADN program just because it is a stand alone class.

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Specializes in Outpatient Psychiatry.
Well I can assure you that they went over patho and pharm, even if it was built into the program. How can you think that they are not learning the same patho and pharm as you just because it is not a separate course? My patho and pharm was built into my program, and I did not just learn drug calculations- in order to be approved by the Board of Nursing a school has to have patho and pharm. I know patho and pharm very in-depth. In my RN-BSN program we do not take a pharm or a patho because we already learned it in our ADN-RN program, we only have classes such as leadership and management, health policy, etc. You can't assume that your knowledge on patho and pharm is superior to an ADN program just because it is a stand alone class.

See that's just it. I'm being flamed over this and for no reason. I believe the BSN is better professional preparation, and I stand by that for a host of reasons. The nursing specialty classes, i.e. peds, OB, med-surg stuff, and so forth were the same books and nearly the same syllabus at my school. The difference was in some other coursework. We did some papers, case studies, and the ADNs did less of that and a couple of more clinical days than we did. Everyone is entitled to their opinion as to which is better professional preparation. I'll end it by saying that yes, we also had patho and pharm integrated into our nursing specialty classes as well. How can that not be? What we did get was many more college courses which included such things as stand alone health assessment, pathophysiology, pharmacology, healthcare management, public health, research methodology, issues and trends in nursing, critical care, and similar things. I'm not saying my knowledge base is superior to anyone's and never indicated that. I just think that, professionally speaking, the BSN is the way to go, and yes my favorite courses were those that the ADNs did not get included in their curricula as stand alone coursework.

Referring back, my school's ADN program included fundamentals of nursing, med math, women's health, mental health, pediatric nursing, med-surg I and med-surg II. The same school's BSN included foundational aspects of nursing (same book, nearly same syllabus), pharmacology, health assessment, issues and trends in nursing, med-surg I (same book, nearly same syllabus), mental health nursing (same course w/ different book and syllabus), pathophysiology, public health, healthcare management, med-surg II (same book, nearly same syllabus), research methodology, obstetrical nursing, pediatric nursing, and critical care nursing.

I think the latter is better educational preparation for the professional. I just don't see how one can argue against that, and I'm still not saying I know more. I just think it's a better academic program.

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Specializes in Critical Care.
See that's just it. I'm being flamed over this and for no reason. I believe the BSN is better professional preparation, and I stand by that for a host of reasons. The nursing specialty classes, i.e. peds, OB, med-surg stuff, and so forth were the same books and nearly the same syllabus at my school. The difference was in some other coursework. We did some papers, case studies, and the ADNs did less of that and a couple of more clinical days than we did. Everyone is entitled to their opinion as to which is better professional preparation. I'll end it by saying that yes, we also had patho and pharm integrated into our nursing specialty classes as well. How can that not be? What we did get was many more college courses which included such things as stand alone health assessment, pathophysiology, pharmacology, healthcare management, public health, research methodology, issues and trends in nursing, critical care, and similar things. I'm not saying my knowledge base is superior to anyone's and never indicated that. I just think that, professionally speaking, the BSN is the way to go, and yes my favorite courses were those that the ADNs did not get included in their curricula as stand alone coursework.

Referring back, my school's ADN program included fundamentals of nursing, med math, women's health, mental health, pediatric nursing, med-surg I and med-surg II. The same school's BSN included foundational aspects of nursing (same book, nearly same syllabus), pharmacology, health assessment, issues and trends in nursing, med-surg I (same book, nearly same syllabus), mental health nursing (same course w/ different book and syllabus), pathophysiology, public health, healthcare management, med-surg II (same book, nearly same syllabus), research methodology, obstetrical nursing, pediatric nursing, and critical care nursing.

I think the latter is better educational preparation for the professional. I just don't see how one can argue against that, and I'm still not saying I know more. I just think it's a better academic program.

You seem to be describing a difference in total credits for the ADN and BSN programs you are referring to as being a year or more. That seems highly unlikely. I've dealt the managing curriculum of both types of programs and the difference in total credits for the "program" portion is typically 15 credits or less (usually a public health class, leadership class, and sometimes a statistics class).

I agree that a BSN is preferable to an ADN, but then again any sort of additional education/experience is preferable. I think "second career" nurses have an advantage due to more life experience, although I don't think it should be required. I have a BSN as well as a previous bachelors degree, which helps, does that mean all nurses should be required to have two bachelors degrees?

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Psychguy- Well, the preference for BSN prepared RNs has already been established by the powers that be! None of us can argue that. I already corrected your assumption that all ADN-holding RNs havent taken pharm and patho individually. Nearly a yr ago, I completed my ADN via a reputable, accredited school 40 min away from where I live. If my areas hospitals want BSNs, so be it. Back to school Ill go. The concern Im having is with financing education beyond the BSN. Heck, im even worried about being able to afford the BSN, but Ill own that. The cost of attending college has increased 1120% over the past 30 yrs. My main concern is that corporations are exploiting us. I dont see an increase in wages comparable to the cost of college attendance or even just living. In fact, from what I hear, employers are expecting more while paying less!!! Are you worried about that too?

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