Local hospital now says "BSN or MSN preferred" for all bedside positions?!

[Nola009]

My goodness, I was just getting used to seeing "BSN preferred" at many a big-city hospital in my region. It's not such a thing at the smaller community hospitals in my area as of now, though. Being that it is my Sunday off, I thought I'd look at the nearest big city hospitals' job postings and one in the area has the gumption to request not only BSN-holding, but *MSN* -holding nurses for all bedside positions. Not management. Bedside, direct patient care nurses. Do my eyes deceive me? Has anyone else seen or heard of this going on in their area too??

I'm sure more education is always a good thing, but COME ON! Do you think this hospital is asking too much?

[PG2018]

I will be starting my ADN program in the fall. I will be taking 2 stand alone pharm classes and a stand alone patho class. I have said it before and I will say it again the NCLEX for a ADN and BSN is the same. So that means both routes give you the same amount of nursing knowledge. I have looked in depth at both programs and the only difference is the amount of gen ed. classes a BSN takes. The pay scale and NCLEX needs to be vastly different to make me understand what the difference is. A few more papers being written does not make one a better nurse than another.

Not quite. The NCLEX generally measures basic competency and the ability to practice safely. My exam covered many instances and disease processes that I had never heard of. I passed on the first try, but no I don't think associate's and bachelor's programs yield the same knowledge. They do, however, yield the same scope of practice. Personally, I think there is a huge disconnect between academics and practice. For what I did in med-surg no amount of professional education was required. In other settings, things may differ, but after being a nurse I fully see why many nurses are resistant to advancing their education. Generally speaking, the room service aspects, feeding people, hefting them around, and washing them (what we seemed to do the most at my former employer) makes us all believe education isn't required. Nonetheless, I feel that if the scut work of nursing is going to lessen then we, as a body, are going to become more highly educated, about all things, demand, and lobby. Nursing, as a profession, doesn't share the same vision and so until that is realized we will continue to be a body of highly varying education models with the same license complaining on Allnurses about how nursing, at least on the floor, is the awful and how we get no respect or professional treatment. I was gravely mislead.

[meanmaryjean, DNP, RN]

Back to the topic of this thread:

I have an MSN and continue to work as a bedside nurse. At one time, my unit had three MSNs at the bedside. Mine is in education, the others were a PNP who was looking for (and subsequently found after a year and a half) a position and the other had hers in Families and Children but was not an APRN.

Yes, I get paid more (through clinical ladder bonus pay) and I also participate in the hospital-wide nursing research council, various shared governance committees and am the primary preceptor for night shift. I mentor my fellow staff members in their clinical ladder activities and PI projects, conduct CCRN reviews, do independent research (published). One thing I do NOT do is act as charge nurse- management is NOT my thing.

While I would NEVER say that bedside nursing requires an MSN, I think there is a place at the bedside for someone like me.

[MunoRN, RN]

I'm guessing your thesis here is that nurses shouldn't be required to achieve the BSN in order to become licensed..?

The short answer is no (the long answer here), it sounds like a great idea and even just plain obvious but only if you don't think about it too much.

The main problem is that we can't expand our current BSN programs to any significant degree due to clinical opportunity limitations. About half of RN graduates come out of ADN programs, so what we're talking about is cutting our output of nurses in half, which would drastically alter our role in healthcare in ways I don't think we're generally aware of.

Beyond that we need to consider the effect on RN demographics, the profession-wide pay cut, etc.

Since RN education needs to remain geographically dispersed, it makes more sense to basically disperse BSN type curriculum, essentially having BSN satellite programs. It would make sense to use already existing facilities, such as community colleges. Luckily, this transition is already well underway, so if what we need is a transition to BSN education that could actually work, we're already there.

[Meriwhen, ASN, BSN, MSN, RN]

I'm not surprised more places are now asking for BSNs/MSNs for bedside positions. It's an employer's market: with the glut of nurses out there looking for work, they know that they can be as choosy as they like.

[toomuchbaloney]

I started with my ADN 35 years ago.

My program required 4 full credits in pharmacology, 4 credits in pathophysiology, and at least 2 credits in microbiology (most of the 13 of 80+ who graduated completed a 4 credit course).

I am surprised that an ADN program would not have very specific courses teaching pharmacology and pathophysiology. How would students of those programs pass the NCLEX?

The fact that hospitals are BSN mandatory and MSN preferred for all positions is reflective of the employer tipped employment scale. They hold all of the cards and can ask whatever they want.

[indish]

I have been at the bedside for 30 years, we all write the same board no matter ADN/Diploma/BSN/MSN We have the same nursing license from our states.

I am so sick of this educational push. My hospital is all about "Magnet" status and that is why the big push for degrees. I would put my experiences at seven major hospitals and every unit but OR and Maternity against a MSN nurse any day. Why do we bedside nurses allow the nursing elite dictate to us what is enough education to provide quality care? As far as degreed nurses providing safer care, you have no idea how many patient's I rescued from the care of the young BSN or MSN nurse because they lack experience. And how do they do this study? I'd like to know in a 24 hour nursing care environment, how do they differentiate from ADN/Diploma or BSN prepared nurse providing that care? My hospital is all about advanced degrees, still only 10 or 20 % of us have them and yet we made top 100 something like 14 times, tons of awards for patient safety etc etc. All on the backs of mostly ADN nurses. I am really, really tired of this demand for degrees, as one posted, "once I get my MSN I'm not at the bedside anymore" So tell me this, who is going to provide the patient care?

[indish]

Most young nurses I work with are going for their MSN so they don't have to be at the bedside. I'm near the end of my career, thirty years later I'm afraid to become a patient when I am older still. No one goes into it anymore to take care of patients. It makes me sad.

[indish]

Well said!

[martymoose, BSN, RN]

So tell me this, who is going to provide the patient care?

Medical assistants.

I think the suits are banking on the public being stupid and uninformed. Without going into detail, wouldn't it "sound better" if hospital A has more MSN's ( whether or not they are working bedside or not) than small hospital B that has adns with more on the job real experience?

Of course WE know the answer to that, but does the non medical informed public know?

All this so hopitals can get their(unlikely) pay based on hcahps.

Shame, even in regular industry knowledge is associated with increased ageism, and no one wants to hire experience over beauty and young age.

[toomuchbaloney]

I just read an online article that reported that medical assistant students were injecting one another with a substance that was not intended for human or animal use. It said so right on the label. Their professor was a BSN (although another reference says that she is MSN prepared). This educated nurse just instructed dozens of students to inject one another multiple times (~10 injections per student) with a substance that was NOT designed, sold, or promoted as safe for human or animal use. Her education did not improve her judgement and critical thought apparently.

Having said that, more education is generally a desirable thing and I would encourage all of my professional peers to continue educating themselves throughout their careers. It will, generally, enhance your job satisfaction and your professional care delivery. IMHO

[applewhitern, BSN, RN]

I wonder why people just assume that if you have an ADN, you got it from a "community college?" I received my ADN from a large 4-year university. The grading standards were much, much higher for the ADN program, than it was for the BSN program, plus the admittance requirements were much tougher. You had to have a much higher ACT score to even get in the ADN program. I just wanted to point out that not all ADN degrees were obtained from a 2-year "community college." We took the same classes as the BSN students did, but we had to make an 84 or higher on everything; the BSN students could pass with a 70. The classes were the same; if you went back for the BSN, you just took more humanities. It was designed to put you in the workforce quicker, but only if you could handle the intensity of the program. It just gripes me that people assume if you had an ADN, you must have went thru a "lesser than" program. Not true!

[Meriwhen, ASN, BSN, MSN, RN]

I wonder why people just assume that if you have an ADN, you got it from a "community college?"

That's probably because most ADN programs are at community colleges/specialty schools.