Leaving Your Job Due to Mandate

10GaugeNeedles, BSN · Aug 30, 2021

1 minute ago, lMCRN said:

I wish you the best really. You sound really overwhelmed like many of us nowadays.

I just wish for camaraderie. When I got out of the military, out of the oil field, and into nursing, it's been constant petty complaining and childish nonsense. Professionalism. Respect. Brotherhood (or sisterhood). That's what I was hoping to find. I didn't find it. Nothing has changed. Even in this thing. Nothing changes. seen it for a long time. Depressing really.

IndySkies · Aug 30, 2021

Glad it’s not Ebola, Small Pox, Polio, Bubonic Plague, You don’t want take the vaccine, OK, (I’ll grant you that ‘freedom’ although I think you’re an idiot). There have been ‘some’ adverse reactions, always will be. 40,000-45,000 deaths reported is a lie. Wear a mask. “But, it inconveniences me, what about ‘Freedumb’ Kansas City Star did a survey of all the counties of Kansas (also known as Brownbackistan, cause the former Governor was jealous of the infrastructure and populace benefits support of the southern states. Wanted it to be come the Mississippi/Alabama of the Great Plains, Midwest) Counties with a mask mandate, the incidences of Co-Vid went down. Counties without a mandate the incidences went up. 7th grade Science. Organizations have the authority, ability, and concern to keep their employees, and clients safe. Don’t want to follow your organizations directives? Fine, get another job, there has always been Nursing shortage. Just because it’s worst now, it’ll pass, and you won’t be missed

jive turkey · Aug 30, 2021

21 minutes ago, IndySkies said:

Glad it’s not Ebola, Small Pox, Polio, Bubonic Plague, You don’t want take the vaccine, OK, (I’ll grant you that ‘freedom’ although I think you’re an idiot). There have been ‘some’ adverse reactions, always will be. 40,000-45,000 deaths reported is a lie. Wear a mask. “But, it inconveniences me, what about ‘Freedumb’ Kansas City Star did a survey of all the counties of Kansas (also known as Brownbackistan, cause the former Governor was jealous of the infrastructure and populace benefits support of the southern states. Wanted it to be come the Mississippi/Alabama of the Great Plains, Midwest) Counties with a mask mandate, the incidences of Co-Vid went down. Counties without a mandate the incidences went up. 7th grade Science. Organizations have the authority, ability, and concern to keep their employees, and clients safe. Don’t want to follow your organizations directives? Fine, get another job, there has always been Nursing shortage. Just because it’s worst now, it’ll pass, and you won’t be missed

Who is this directed at? I don't think anyone in this thread has such an extreme viewpoint about masks and vaccination.

toomuchbaloney · Aug 30, 2021

17 minutes ago, jive turkey said:

Who is this directed at? I don't think anyone in this thread has such an extreme viewpoint about masks and vaccination.

It's directed to the readers of the thread.

toomuchbaloney · Aug 30, 2021

9 hours ago, mdOldie said:

I thought that natural immunity being better had been the prevailing science until the COVID vaccine, but maybe I was wrong. I don't think you said it. One of the studies I posted showed natural immunity was better for delta. And I agree with you about the media and official sources pretending like natural immunity doesn't exist.

If natural immunity is better, do you think that the risk of serious illness or death from the necessary infection is acceptable? Does it seem, at this moment in time, that pursuing herd immunity to Delta variant through infection is something that our health system and economy easily accommodates? Is it best to attain herd immunity to disease quickly with as little death and suffering as possible through vaccination or to achieve herd immunity through infection more slowly with all of the death and disability that accompanies widespread contagious disease?

If the media started suggesting that natural immunity is preferred to vaccination do you think that more people would vaccinate?

emtb2rn, BSN, RN, EMT-B · Aug 30, 2021

On 8/29/2021 at 12:54 AM, 10GaugeNeedles said:

Where in the world has this study been all my life!! Thanks for posting. Excellent article.

Y’all read the article to the end right? If not, here ya go:

”Although no meaningful differences were noticed in the clinical course of COVID-19 nor in its incidence and prevalence rates between rheumatic and non-rheumatic patients[21,22], it cannot be ruled out that SARS-CoV-2 may eventually influence the immune response. Concomitant immunosuppressive therapies prescribed to rheumatic patients may constrain the activation of the innate and adaptive immune system and protect from the development of a highly inflammatory cascade associated to worse COVID-19 outcomes[144].

CONCLUSION

In conclusion, it is not yet time for considering autoimmunity as the comet tail of COVID-19, and many of the reported immune-mediated disorders in SARS-CoV-2 may represent transitory epiphenomena accompanying a viral infection. Anti-inflammatory and immunosuppressive therapies may have a protective role in preventing the development of definite autoimmune diseases, but current evidence in support is still developing and may take a few more years to have any definitive answers.”

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7479552/

Ash136 · Aug 30, 2021

My only concern is that other vaccines such as the flu has taken nearly 3 decades to develop an effective vaccine which killed 50M people worldwide. The Hepatitis B vaccine took 12 years for the FDA to approve it. Granted science has evolved greatly. Yes, the goal is to protect myself and those around me. But what are the long term effects when I am considering I have 2 young children to raise. Is there enough studies done to show that although it may protect me for now, what could be my complications a couple years down the road that could take me away from my children still. I understand that the goal is to get COVID-19 under control but I also have to think about the present as well as my future.

*By no means, is this inviting others to come with negative comments and belittle me because of my personal concerns. This is just me saying why I have been on the edge about my job mandating the vaccine for all employees.

macawake, MSN · Aug 30, 2021

2 hours ago, Ash136 said:

My only concern is that other vaccines such as the flu has taken nearly 3 decades to develop an effective vaccine which killed 50M people worldwide. The Hepatitis B vaccine took 12 years for the FDA to approve it. Granted science has evolved greatly. Yes, the goal is to protect myself and those around me. But what are the long term effects when I am considering I have 2 young children to raise. Is there enough studies done to show that although it may protect me for now, what could be my complications a couple years down the road that could take me away from my children still. I understand that the goal is to get COVID-19 under control but I also have to think about the present as well as my future.

*By no means, is this inviting others to come with negative comments and belittle me because of my personal concerns. This is just me saying why I have been on the edge about my job mandating the vaccine for all employees.

On a forum you’ll get different kind of replies. I don’t know what it is you want to hear in response or if my reply qualifies as negative in your opinion.

Your username doesn’t indicate whether you are a healthcare professional or not? Anyway, I’m assuming your first sentence isn’t worded exactly how you intended? You aren’t suggesting that the flu vaccine has killed 50 million worldwide, are you? I assume you meant influenza?

Regarding the Covid vaccines, the mRNA technique is something researchers have been working on for decades. It’s not really new, but it’s accurate that it is the first time it has been used in a vaccine against a virus. But you also have another vaccine available in the U.S. that is not an mRNA vaccine that is currently EUA but will likely get full approval later this year.

Regarding the the speed of vaccine development, the reason is that never in our lifetimes have scientists been so motivated to come up with a vaccine as this time. Never before have governments thrown so much money at pharmaceutical companies as they have this time. This has removed a lot of the financial risk normally involved for pharmaceutical companies which has allowed them to progress more rapidly than usual. But they never skipped steps. The trials went through the normal; animal tests, phase 1, 2 and 3 trials and the data was reviewed and the vaccines were found to be safe and effective, before they received Emergency Use Authorization (EUA). The phase 3 trials were large with a much higher number of participants than in many other drug trials which have resulted in approved medications that we give our patients on a daily basis.

The amount of additional safety data we’ve now accumulated in less than a year is phenomenal. We’ve literally administered billions of doses worldwide of the various globally approved vaccines.

Have you ever heard of a vaccine whose side effects take years to show?
I haven’t. And there is not really any plausible reason/mechanism of action I can think of that would make that even remotely likely. But we do know that Covid infections are killing people. We don’t need to wait for that data. It’s already here and has been for well over a year.

I find this concern that many posters on here are spreading that the vaccines will somehow have longterm effects that will only rear its ugly head years from now quite strange. I think it might be fear of the unknown or fear of something we don’t really understand. I don’t mean that it a condescending way. It’s only natural to be a bit wary of things we don’t fully grasp.

One of the main challenges that researchers have struggled with for decades is that mRNA molecules are extremely fragile. They are quickly degraded by enzymes in the human body. The mRNA vaccines has to be ”encapsulated” in LNPs (lipid nanoparticles), or the vaccine would likely not even make it into our muscle cell’s cytosol at the injection site. Also consider that the mRNA vaccines have to be stored and shipped at ultra-low temperatures. Again, it’s because they aren’t all that sturdy.

I understand the concern about being there for your children. But I think, and large amounts of research and epidemiological data supports my opinion, that your risk assessment is off if you fear a vaccine more than you fear getting a Covid-19 infection and actually die from it. Covid-19 has orphaned many children worldwide. Don’t decide based on what an anonymous nurse on the internet says, but I strongly urge you to talk this through with your medical provider. If you want to maximize your chance to be there for your kids in the future, the vaccine is the way to go. But as I said, talk to a medical professional whom you trust and who knows you and your medical history.

Take care!

macawake, MSN · Aug 30, 2021

16 hours ago, jive turkey said:

No you are not! Don't let these people get to you! Unfortunately, Internet forums tend to be a brothel for toxic attitudes and opinions.

It's not your fault people have rigid, insensitive, narrow minded POVs.

"People bully because it can be an effective way of getting what they want, at least in the short term, and because they lack the social skills to do so without harming others......Bullies like victims who become visibly upset when they are picked on and who do not have friends or allies."

Don't give in to that. We are possibly among the minority of medical professionals willing to consider dissenting views of mandatory, universal vaccination while not being completely against vaccination. That scares people. Stay open minded as you have and continue encouraging others to do so.

If you mention the same thing in at least a hundred different posts, it starts to look like you are attempting to browbeat people who don’t agree with your point of view into silence. I’ve honestly lost count of how many times you made posts criticizing how other people express themselves.

When someone disagrees with something you post and offers a rationale for their disagreement, that’s not bullying. I personally believe that you use this oft repeated complaint of yours as a strategy when you can’t logically rebut someone else’s post. You just label them a bully. Instead you can try to argue using facts. And if you can’t come up with facts that support your position, that might be the time to start reconsidering your own stance. Seriously, if you have facts and evidence on your side it should be easy to win a debate, even if you believe that the person you are debating is rude.

What, if anything, does the fact that you are a minority of healthcare professionals tell you? What do you make of the fact that ~98% of US physicians have chosen to get vaccinated against Covid? What is it you think you know, that they don’t?

Staying open-minded in the context of your posts sounds an awful lot like everyone’s unsubstantiated opinions and unfounded concerns should be given at least the same weight as someone else’s verifiable facts. That kind of open-mindedness is not something to strive for (in my opinion of course).

mdOldie · Aug 30, 2021

6 hours ago, macawake said:

What do you make of the fact that ~98% of US physicians have chosen to get vaccinated against Covid?

Source for this "fact" please? If it's the AMA, what % of physicians currently belong to the AMA? What about DOs? I know many physicians who have chosen NOT to get vaccinated.

Seems like this forum pretty much represents the overall feelings of the professions though.

mnmnmn · Aug 31, 2021

Just started reading the comments, noticed a few stating they don't see the bullying. That is all I see.

I won't get this vaccine, been working covid units from the start.

It is unfortunate that our regulatory bodies have suffered from corporate capture & revolving door.

I am quitting, have worked 4-5 12s a week for a few years, time for a vaca! I will sit this out and watch what happens.

I hope a few years down the road that this new type of vaccine is truly safe. Good luck, because you all are now part of the long term trial.

toomuchbaloney · Aug 31, 2021

3 minutes ago, mnmnmn said:

Just started reading the comments, noticed a few stating they don't see the bullying. That is all I see.

I won't get this vaccine, been working covid units from the start.

It is unfortunate that our regulatory bodies have suffered from corporate capture & revolving door.

I am quitting, have worked 4-5 12s a week for a few years, time for a vaca! I will sit this out and watch what happens.

I hope a few years down the road that this new type of vaccine is truly safe. Good luck, because you all are now part of the long term trial.

It's good that you won't be working with vulnerable patients while unvaccinated during a pandemic in the near future. It's unfortunate that you've chosen to gamble with a vaccine preventable disease that you have apparently watched people suffer and die with.

It makes no sense.