Leaving Your Job Due to Mandate

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For those of you who have recognized your employer can terminate you for not taking the COVID vaccine and have decided on or are considering employment elsewhere please share your experiences here. How do you feel about having to make that choice? 

The purpose of this thread is not to condemn those making this decision or debate whether they should vaccinate or not. 

To jiveturkey: we cool, just feel bad about suffering I did not really want to say that covid unvaccinated patients are not victims they have suffered tremendously in the hospital and losing their fight. I care a lot about people and think that hopefully those that have chosen not to vaccinate will. I had covid for three months last June after visiting my mom in South Carolina no one was masked, was not hospitalized and used 100 hours of my time and have had chest pain for about a year really mild and like mild COPD. 

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Specializes in Acute Dialysis.
54 minutes ago, toomuchbaloney said:

You are welcome to your doubt, no matter how unsupported by facts or evidence that doubt is.  When you publish that doubt repeatedly after receiving evidence which is in direct conflict with the the doubt and concern you risk encouraging unnecessary and dangerous hesitancy in others.  I will always speak out against published opinion which undermines confidence in sound public health recommendations during a national emergency.  

What point did you think you were making when you point out that people make risk benefit decisions when they consent for medical intervention and treatment? Covid patients (or their families) consent to arterial lines, intubation, tracheostomies, PEG tubes...all manner of medical care and treatment.  There's nothing new or unusual about obtaining informed consent or what that means.  

In your opinion I don't take this seriously and have thin credibility. In your opinion I'm part of the problem.  In reality, I'm vaccinated, I've provided sound information and citations and the problem right now is unvaccinated Americans getting sick and stressing our hospitals to their brink.  

This conversation is not productive. I and MANY nurses like me have valid concerns. It's not productive to have a dismissive attitude. You have no empathy, fair mindedness, good faith, or reading comprehension (I think it's voluntary). I have nothing else to say to you.

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Specializes in CRNA, Finally retired.
1 minute ago, 10GaugeNeedles said:

This conversation is not productive. I and MANY nurses like me have valid concerns. It's not productive to have a dismissive attitude. You have no empathy, fair mindedness, good faith, or reading comprehension (I think it's voluntary). I have nothing else to say to you.

Thank you.

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10 gauge: you are getting the vaccine right? That’s great but why keep posting anti-vac?

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Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
20 minutes ago, 10GaugeNeedles said:

This conversation is not productive. I and MANY nurses like me have valid concerns. It's not productive to have a dismissive attitude. You have no empathy, fair mindedness, good faith, or reading comprehension (I think it's voluntary). I have nothing else to say to you.

I would agree that continuing to talk about vaccine doubt after the doubt has been addressed with facts and evidence is not productive.  Publishing your doubts does exactly nothing to encourage the hesitant to vaccinate but they do elevate and highlight unnecessary concern with the vaccines.  That is counter productive to public health efforts to encourage vaccination with the free and safe vaccines.  

Whether or not you believe that I personally have empathy is irrelevant.  Are you trying to insult me?  It's not going to work.  You should just stick to the topic.  HCWS should be vaccinated against covid and employers have every right and motivation to mandate the vaccination during the pandemic. 

Whether or not you address me directly, I will continue to counter your "concerns" where appropriate. 

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Specializes in Acute Dialysis.
1 hour ago, mdOldie said:

Hi 10g, I love the detailed scientific analysis and sharing of peer-reviewed publications that you have done with this topic.  

I'm curious what you found that lead you to believe that there's no continued spike protein production.  I heard that it didn't stop.  Did you see this publication about the autopsy that showed that the spike protein was found it in multiple organs in a vaccinated individual?  Of course, this individual didn't live that long, but definitely something of note.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8051011/?report=reader

I'm also attaching another article you may find interesting.  

MRA_FINAL_6_14_21_Treatable metabolic and inflammatory abnormalities in Post COVID.pdf

Heres the video explaining the genetic mechanisms behind mrna degradation. It's for the lay person but I still found it useful: 

 

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27 minutes ago, 10GaugeNeedles said:

Hey! Thanks for reading through it. It's good to know I'm not just talking to myself. LOL. 

thanks for sharing the case study. A couple things stupid or to me:

-Immunogenicity assessment by measuring spike protein (S1) antigen-binding immunoglobulin (Ig) G in the serum samples obtained at day 25 showed antibody response...These results indicate that the patient had already developed relevant immunogenicity through vaccination.[so it does appear there was immunity from the vaccine (or possibly a covid infection subsequent to the vaccine which was also present]. Nothing about spike protein presence. I could be reading wing nut that's what it looks like.

-Postmortem study revealed acute bilateral bronchopneumonia with abscesses, sometimes being surrounded by bacterial cocciThere were no findings of commonly described manifestations of COVID-19-associated pneumonitis. [This suggests a protective effect from the vaccine]

-We demonstrated viral RNA in nearly all organs examined except for the liver and the olfactory bulb. [This seems to be what you're referring to. While I'm not a pathologist, it seems they would have differentiated between spike protein vs viral partials. I'm not sure but seems to suggest a wide spread distribution of virus rather than spike protein exclusively].

-Our findings are in line with previous evidence from animal models that immunization against SARS-CoV-2 by vaccination appeared to reduce the severity of pathogenesis, especially with regard to severe lung disease. [I think I agree with this conclusion. The fact that primarily bacterial infection and kidney failure were the assumed mechanism of death, some of the classic signs of viral injury were absent suggest he died from a covid infection rather than a viral injury 4 weeks after inoculation. I think it's important to remember we are talking an 86 year old pt so, though vaccinated, may not have adequate baseline hardware to recover regardless. Probably doesn't translate to all age groups... Will update....

The way I read it is that the patient had developed immunogenicity through the vaccine - as "nucleocapsid IgG/IgM was not elicited"  so it doesn't sound like he had been previously infected.  

And yes, I agree, it doesn't say spike protein was found but viral RNA.  So how did that viral RNA get into all his organs?  Was it from spike protein getting into the organs?  Or was it from contracting COVID from the patient in the room with him?   

I agree, that the published data supports reduction of severity in symptoms.  But, would this man have even been in there if he hadn't had the vaccine?  Was his death indirectly as a result of the vaccine?  It seems to me it could as easily go that way as the other way, just like the numerous deaths in people with underlying conditions that the actual cause of death could have been the underlying condition.  

What makes you think it was a COVID infection not bacterial pneumonia as the authors conclude?  I'm no expert on any of this, I just try to read and analyze and think.   Especially when the words "safe and effective" are thrown around, and the usually safety studies were not done, adequate time has not passed, some people are making a lot of money, and multiple reputable individuals are raising questions and self-reported adverse effects and deaths are high and I have a responsibility to do no harm.  How many pharmaceuticals have been approved through the normal protocol and then later taken off the market due to adverse events?  Part of me is worried about the future of the world.  

Here's another interesting article which states in its discussion - 

"Nonetheless, evidence of systemic detection of spike and S1 protein production from the mRNA-1273 vaccine is significant and has not yet been described in any vaccine study, likely due to limitations in assay sensitivity and timing assessment. The clinical relevance of this finding is unknown and should be further explored. These data show that S1 antigen production after the initial vaccination can be detected by day 1 and is present beyond the site of injection and the associated regional lymph nodes."

https://academic.oup.com/cid/advance-article/doi/10.1093/cid/ciab465/6279075#

My understanding was that the vaccine was designed only to express membrane-anchored antigen.

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Specializes in A variety.
16 minutes ago, lMCRN said:

To jiveturkey: we cool, just feel bad about suffering I did not really want to say that covid unvaccinated patients are not victims they have suffered tremendously in the hospital and losing their fight. I care a lot about people and think that hopefully those that have chosen not to vaccinate will. I had covid for three months last June after visiting my mom in South Carolina no one was masked, was not hospitalized and used 100 hours of my time and have had chest pain for about a year really mild and like mild COPD. 

I regret to hear you had that experience.  I seriously hope at some point these symptoms subside!

On a personal level I know people who:

had COVID and did just fine 

people who struggled with it and needed hospitalization

had persistent symptoms afterward like you

those that passed away from it

got the vaccine and had no problems

got the vaccine and got COVID really bad, and even had persisting symptoms.

This is why I champion keeping an open mind and not having a one size fits all.

 

 

 

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Specializes in Acute Dialysis.
7 minutes ago, lMCRN said:

10 gauge: you are getting the vaccine right? That’s great but why keep posting anti-vac?

I'm not anti vaccination. I'm hesitant. I've laid out my concerns previously. My final conclusion is: I don't want to get infected (before I started researching I wasn't concerned. Now I am. So I'm motivated). I don't want to get injured by the vaccine (I know. Crazy right? How dumb is that? Nobody ever gets hurt. I know cause SAFE AND EFFECTIVE! SIGH.....). I voice my concerns and I'm called "antivax". I JUST got mmr and other boosters a freaking WEEK ago. But I'm still anti vax right? I'm the bad guy.

Fine. I'm the bad guy. I'm the cause of the pandemic. I'm sick of this. I'M SICK OF THIS! Yes, no thanks to the pro vaxxers, I've learned enough to be comfortable. No thanks to the pro vaxxers, I'm going to get vacinated. I learned in SPITE of your side. UNLIKE your side, I understand why people aren't comfortable doing whatever they are told by the media/government/big pharma cooperative. I'm getting vaccinated. But I despise the rhetoric from your side.

Your side is NOT helping. All they do is push people away and shame. Well when I got into nursing, I thought our only goal was to help people. I was wrong. I will get vaccinated. But I'll never be on your side. Your side is the problem and they don't care. I'll probably get deleted, but I hope you hear me. I'm angry at this point. 

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Thank you for clarifying your hesitancy vs anti vaccine and your posts are exhausting.

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Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
4 hours ago, 10GaugeNeedles said:

Your side is NOT helping. All they do is push people away and shame. Well when I got into nursing, I thought our only goal was to help people. I was wrong. I will get vaccinated. But I'll never be on your side. Your side is the problem and they don't care. I'll probably get deleted, but I hope you hear me. I'm angry at this point. 

You've chosen sides and apparently you are on a different side than the public health experts and all of the major medical institutions relative to the safety of the covid vaccines.  

It seems that your testimony indicates that first, you were uncertain and were unlikely to vaccinate, that you didn't know where to look for credible information, then you read some information provided here which caused you to reconsider vaccinating, and then you claim that the perspective which provided the information and resources which helped to change your mind about vaccination didn't work. 

The problem in this country right now is not that there are people adamant about vaccinating but that there are too many unvaccinated who are belligerent about remaining unvaccinated. The unvaccinated are driving hospitalization and death numbers from the virus.  

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Specializes in A variety.
22 minutes ago, 10GaugeNeedles said:

 I voice my concerns and I'm called "antivax". I JUST got mmr and other boosters a freaking WEEK ago. But I'm still anti vax right? I'm the bad guy.

Fine. I'm the bad guy. 

 

No you are not!  Don't let these people get to you!  Unfortunately, Internet forums tend to be a brothel for toxic attitudes and opinions.  

It's not your fault people have rigid, insensitive, narrow minded POVs.

"People bully because it can be an effective way of getting what they want, at least in the short term, and because they lack the social skills to do so without harming others......Bullies like victims who become visibly upset when they are picked on and who do not have friends or allies."

Don't give in to that.  We are possibly among the minority of medical professionals willing to consider dissenting views of mandatory, universal vaccination while not being completely against vaccination.   That scares people. Stay open minded as you have and continue encouraging others to do so.

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