Leaving Your Job Due to Mandate

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For those of you who have recognized your employer can terminate you for not taking the COVID vaccine and have decided on or are considering employment elsewhere please share your experiences here. How do you feel about having to make that choice? 

The purpose of this thread is not to condemn those making this decision or debate whether they should vaccinate or not. 

Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
1 hour ago, 10GaugeNeedles said:

You should work for the CDC press office. 

Thank you.  

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Specializes in Acute Dialysis.
1 minute ago, toomuchbaloney said:

Providing you with the public health recommendations and credible sources to support the reality that the vaccines are safe and effective and necessary If we are to get past this pandemic is what I'm doing.  Countering misinformation with facts and data is what I'm doing. Pushing back against unfounded fears and concerns which encourage vaccine hesitancy is what I'm doing.  It's not clear that you do know. I was hopeful for a moment when you connected with the reality that the danger of autoimmune issues are greater following covid infection not covid vaccination. 

"Countering misinformation"? What about the individuals I cited? You dismiss them out right! These people were harmed, there ARE risks, and YOU pretending those people simply don't matter is pathetic. 

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4 hours ago, 10GaugeNeedles said:

3) I'm convinced now that the vaccine is not long lasting. First, once the mrna particles are destroyed intra cellularly, there's no continued spike protein production (at least as far as I've read).  Thus if there is an injury to cells (which I still believe does happen) it should not continue long term since, if there's no instruction to make spike protein, none gets produced. And that makes sense. 

Hi 10g, I love the detailed scientific analysis and sharing of peer-reviewed publications that you have done with this topic.  

I'm curious what you found that lead you to believe that there's no continued spike protein production.  I heard that it didn't stop.  Did you see this publication about the autopsy that showed that the spike protein was found it in multiple organs in a vaccinated individual?  Of course, this individual didn't live that long, but definitely something of note.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8051011/?report=reader

I'm also attaching another article you may find interesting.  

MRA_FINAL_6_14_21_Treatable metabolic and inflammatory abnormalities in Post COVID.pdf

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Specializes in Acute Dialysis.
4 minutes ago, toomuchbaloney said:

I was hopeful for a moment when you connected with the reality that the danger of autoimmune issues are greater following covid infection not covid vaccination. 

I haven't changed my view. Once I get my vitD levels up, I plan to get vaccinated. One shot or two? Jenson or the others. Not sure yet. But you and people like you, dismissing everything but the CDC taking points is irritating. Medicine is not as simple as you pretend it is and your sides intransigence to anything outside your pamphlet is making this misinformation problem WORSE. 

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Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
3 minutes ago, 10GaugeNeedles said:

"Countering misinformation"? What about the individuals I cited? You dismiss them out right! These people were harmed, there ARE risks, and YOU pretending those people simply don't matter is pathetic. 

LOL

Nah. You claim that I dismiss all manner of things that I actually consider, read about and comment on using evidence and data and expert opinion to support my comments.  

I'm not pretending anything.  I'm wondering why you want to elevate uncommon side effects to vaccination while it is important to help encourage widespread vaccination to combat a national public health emergency.  At the same time that I try to reassure others that the vaccines are more likely to save the recipient from serious illness or death than they are to cause injury, illness or death. 

Why do you keep elevating doubt and concern?

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Liveturky: I do not believe that medical staff attitudes have turned people away from getting the vaccine. Again like others I did not post trying to convince others to vaccinate, if these are adults and have not vaccinated despite the 4th surge and 90%+ of critically ill and hospitalized pt with covid are unvaccinated your positivity and my negativity are not doing anything to tip the scale either way, they are hard core anti-covid vaccinators who have held out waiting for some break through study that shows severe long term disability from all the covid vaccines.  I believe those that have suffered with covid in the hospital and that we lost are very sorry they did not take the vaccine. 

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Specializes in Acute Dialysis.
Just now, toomuchbaloney said:

LOL

Nah. You claim that I dismiss all manner of things that I actually consider, read about and comment on using evidence and data and expert opinion to support my comments.  

I'm not pretending anything.  I'm wondering why you want to elevate uncommon side effects to vaccination while it is important to help encourage widespread vaccination to combat a national public health emergency.  At the same time that I try to reassure others that the vaccines are more likely to save the recipient from serious illness or death than they are to cause injury, illness or death. 

Why do you keep elevating doubt and concern?

I don't elevate doubt. I'm honest about it. You on the other hand read your script and buttress the hardline antivaxxers. You frustrate the conversation with your appeals to authority. Uncommon side effects can KILL, DISABLE, AND HARM people. NOT OFTEN, but it DOES happen. Why pretend it doesn't? I haven't heard you give a degree of consideration to serious side effects.  This issue is not solved by ignoring it.

A "common" complication of surgery is infection. This we know. No big deal the pt thinks. They sign the paper. Then they wake up in ICU a week later from a "common complication." They would not necessarily refuse the procedure, but at least they'd be prepared for the possibility if they took the potential complications seriously. You don't take these issues seriously and that is why your credibility is paper thin. Stop being part of the problem. 

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Specializes in A variety.
15 minutes ago, lMCRN said:

Liveturky: I do not believe that medical staff attitudes have turned people away from getting the vaccine. Again like others I did not post trying to convince others to vaccinate, if these are adults and have not vaccinated despite the 4th surge and 90%+ of critically ill and hospitalized pt with covid are unvaccinated your positivity and my negativity are not doing anything to tip the scale either way, they are hard core anti-covid vaccinators who have held out waiting for some break through study that shows severe long term disability from all the covid vaccines.  I believe those that have suffered with covid in the hospital and that we lost are very sorry they did not take the vaccine. 

How can't you believe that?  I'm not lying to you.  Perhaps you've never heard a1st hand account of someone who was turned off by it, not your fault. 

Don't take what I say personal. I'm not sure I se you bullying or being disrespectful to anyone. 

 I'm not talking about the hard core anti-vaccine people that won't even consider the reality of people getting this disease and being hospitalized. I'm talking about the people that are unsure and on the fence about it. I'm also talking about the people who have already been infected and see that people aren't getting reinfected by-and-large

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Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
18 minutes ago, 10GaugeNeedles said:

I don't elevate doubt. I'm honest about it. You on the other hand read your script and buttress the hardline antivaxxers. You frustrate the conversation with your appeals to authority. Uncommon side effects can KILL, DISABLE, AND HARM people. NOT OFTEN, but it DOES happen. Why pretend it doesn't? I haven't heard you give a degree of consideration to serious side effects.  This issue is not solved by ignoring it.

A "common" complication of surgery is infection. This we know. No big deal the pt thinks. They sign the paper. Then they wake up in ICU a week later from a "common complication." They would not necessarily refuse the procedure, but at least they'd be prepared for the possibility if they took the potential complications seriously. You don't take these issues seriously and that is why your credibility is paper thin. Stop being part of the problem. 

You are welcome to your doubt, no matter how unsupported by facts or evidence that doubt is.  When you publish that doubt repeatedly after receiving evidence which is in direct conflict with the the doubt and concern you risk encouraging unnecessary and dangerous hesitancy in others.  I will always speak out against published opinion which undermines confidence in sound public health recommendations during a national emergency.  

What point did you think you were making when you point out that people make risk benefit decisions when they consent for medical intervention and treatment? Covid patients (or their families) consent to arterial lines, intubation, tracheostomies, PEG tubes...all manner of medical care and treatment.  There's nothing new or unusual about obtaining informed consent or what that means.  

In your opinion I don't take this seriously and have thin credibility. In your opinion I'm part of the problem.  In reality, I'm vaccinated, I've provided sound information and citations and the problem right now is unvaccinated Americans getting sick and stressing our hospitals to their brink.  

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Specializes in Acute Dialysis.
58 minutes ago, mdOldie said:

Hi 10g, I love the detailed scientific analysis and sharing of peer-reviewed publications that you have done with this topic.  

I'm curious what you found that lead you to believe that there's no continued spike protein production.  I heard that it didn't stop.  Did you see this publication about the autopsy that showed that the spike protein was found it in multiple organs in a vaccinated individual?  Of course, this individual didn't live that long, but definitely something of note.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8051011/?report=reader

I'm also attaching another article you may find interesting.  

MRA_FINAL_6_14_21_Treatable metabolic and inflammatory abnormalities in Post COVID.pdf

Hey! Thanks for reading through it. It's good to know I'm not just talking to myself. LOL. 

thanks for sharing the case study. A couple things stupid or to me:

-Immunogenicity assessment by measuring spike protein (S1) antigen-binding immunoglobulin (Ig) G in the serum samples obtained at day 25 showed antibody response...These results indicate that the patient had already developed relevant immunogenicity through vaccination.[so it does appear there was immunity from the vaccine (or possibly a covid infection subsequent to the vaccine which was also present]. Nothing about spike protein presence. I could be reading wing nut that's what it looks like.

-Postmortem study revealed acute bilateral bronchopneumonia with abscesses, sometimes being surrounded by bacterial cocciThere were no findings of commonly described manifestations of COVID-19-associated pneumonitis. [This suggests a protective effect from the vaccine]

-We demonstrated viral RNA in nearly all organs examined except for the liver and the olfactory bulb. [This seems to be what you're referring to. While I'm not a pathologist, it seems they would have differentiated between spike protein vs viral particles. I'm not sure but seems to suggest a wide spread distribution of virus rather than spike protein exclusively. It's a controversial topic I'm not going to lie.].

-Our findings are in line with previous evidence from animal models that immunization against SARS-CoV-2 by vaccination appeared to reduce the severity of pathogenesis, especially with regard to severe lung disease. [I think I agree with this conclusion. The fact that primarily bacterial infection (meaning secondary infections) and kidney failure were the assumed mechanism of death, some of the classic signs of viral injury being absent suggest he died from a covid infection rather than a viral injury 4 weeks after inoculation. I think it's important to remember we are talking an 86 year old pt so, though vaccinated, may not have adequate baseline hardware to recover regardless. Probably doesn't translate to all age groups.

 

The second article was interesting. 

ONE PART near the end: Stratifying patients by symptoms alone is not
satisfactory for either COVID-19 or PCS.
Extrapolating severe PCS to antecedent
COVID-19 does not bear out clinically but
given worse COVID-19 acutely, the severity
of PCS and pulmonary fibrosis are worse. [Seems to me this is a good evidence to get vaccinated. Since I started reading about it seriously, I really don't want to get it.]

ANOTHER THING that stood out to me was: The curious unpublished finding is that many
patients with PCS noted the progressive onset
of symptoms after initial recovery, with a
window of time appearing of fewer
symptoms shortly after clearance of COVID-
19. To some observers, this inexorable
worsening, despite negative tests for viral
persistence, suggested an acquired,
progressive, post-viral syndrome, with
metabolic, immune and autoimmune
complications leading the list of possible
culprits. [And this is my biggest fear from both the virus AND vaccine. Acquired auto immunity. I'm terrified. That crap could be for life! However, I'm coming to the conclusion that, the risk categories are the same for covid and the vaccine. BUT. The risk SEVERITY for the vaccine is far less than the virus itself. Auto immune stuff scares the cr@p out of me I'm not going to lie. I've treated WAY too many lupus pts with dialysis to not be concerned.]

 

The reason I'm not as concerned about persistent spike protein production is:

1) the basic scientific description I watched gave me understanding we have innate mechanisms to destroy the mrna particles. I'm not very well educated in genetics. But this Dr gave an excellent video discussion about it which I found helpful. I'll post if I can find it 

2) cells that have spike protein on their surfaces will be destroyed by immune cells. That makes sense. So if they are, obviously they stop making spike protein. This isn't good per se as my own cells become the target and are destroyed, but it DOES suggest it will end. And plus I'll get immunity to the virus as well. Immunity is clearly demonstrated from multiple sources. 

3) finally, the anecdotal reports about initial symptoms are concerning. But, long term vaccine specific issues have yet to be reported that I've seen. I've seen allot of initial reports of anecdotal injury, but very few reports of long term, late stage, "6 months out type" initial presentation symptom manifestation. So I conclude, if you get hit, it's gonna show up in the early stages. If after 4 weeks, no symptoms, you're probably clear. At least that's what what I've read has suggested to me. 

Anyway, I don't want to get it. So I'll be spending this next month dosing up on vit D. Then, if no reports on Novavax in the immediate future, I'll probably get the pfizer shot. In the mean time I'm going to continue to look for info as it comes in. 

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Specializes in CRNA, Finally retired.
2 hours ago, jive turkey said:

What other disease do we find it acceptable to socially and publicly "blame" patients for a decision that led to their illness?  Why are we picking COVID?

It's not too challenging to understand why people are skeptical, hesitant, and have doubts.  

Do you genuinely believe people have no reasons to be hesitant?

How many high contageous viral diseases have a vaccine that will prevent deaths during a pandemic?  AND yes, I do believe that people have no genuine reasons to be hesitant.  I wouldn't hesitate to vaccinate someone.  Would you?

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Specializes in CRNA, Finally retired.
12 minutes ago, subee said:

How many high contageous viral diseases have a vaccine that will prevent deaths during a pandemic?  AND yes, I do believe that people have no genuine reasons to be hesitant.  I wouldn't hesitate to vaccinate someone.  Would you?

And a P.S.  to JT.  We are mostly nurses here so we have an inside track to how patients suffer.  That's why some of us are there.  It's all about alleviating suffering.  Every.single.treatment. we have will bring out people who have suffered side effects.  I was a chemo nurse in olden times before infusion centers existed (we gave everything IV push..almost everything) and I never met a patient with cancer who refused treatment even though these drugs REALLY did have long-term side effects.  Beef up the vaccine courts and get the money moving but having said that, it is difficult for some cases to prove that A led to B.  I would prefer a quick renumeration without lawyers involved and the amounts are pro-rated according to the medical needs of the patient.   Socialized countries have already adopted something like this for medical errors because extended litigation serves no one but once you get a lawyer.........it could take years to get anything.  Occasionally there is the outlier that has to be investigated (like the people suing for 9/11 compensation when they were out of state).   There is no perfect system for sure but it's more humane and cheaper to err on the side of just giving them the compensation and realizing that we can't make this perfect.  The abusers can be caught later.  Having said this, it's disingenuous to bring up the rare bad story to discourage others from taking the "chemo." 

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