Leaving Your Job Due to Mandate

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For those of you who have recognized your employer can terminate you for not taking the COVID vaccine and have decided on or are considering employment elsewhere please share your experiences here. How do you feel about having to make that choice? 

The purpose of this thread is not to condemn those making this decision or debate whether they should vaccinate or not. 

Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
33 minutes ago, jive turkey said:

I regret to hear you had that experience.  I seriously hope at some point these symptoms subside!

On a personal level I know people who:

had COVID and did just fine 

people who struggled with it and needed hospitalization

had persistent symptoms afterward like you

those that passed away from it

got the vaccine and had no problems

got the vaccine and got COVID really bad, and even had persisting symptoms.

This is why I champion keeping an open mind and not having a one size fits all.

 

 

 

      Correction as a Solution for Health Misinformation on Social Media

Quote

Scholars (including in this issue of AJPH) have debated which interventions limit the spread of health misinformation on social media, including promoting high-quality information, removing misinformation from platforms, and inoculating people against misinformation by bolstering news, information, and health literacy. Unfortunately, these preventative solutions cannot eliminate health misinformation, necessitating strategies that respond to misinformation to limit its pernicious influence on public attitudes and behaviors.

Corrections—the presentation of information designed to rebut an inaccurate claim or a misperception—are an important treatment for misinformation. Despite the relative stickiness of misinformation, corrections are typically effective in reducing beliefs in health misinformation, although they are less so as issues become more polarized or beliefs become embedded in an individual’s self-concept.1,2

It's not personal and it's not bullying.

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Specializes in Acute Dialysis.
52 minutes ago, mdOldie said:

The way I read it is that the patient had developed immunogenicity through the vaccine - as "nucleocapsid IgG/IgM was not elicited"  so it doesn't sound like he had been previously infected.  

And yes, I agree, it doesn't say spike protein was found but viral RNA.  So how did that viral RNA get into all his organs?  Was it from spike protein getting into the organs?  Or was it from contracting COVID from the patient in the room with him?   

I agree, that the published data supports reduction of severity in symptoms.  But, would this man have even been in there if he hadn't had the vaccine?  Was his death indirectly as a result of the vaccine?  It seems to me it could as easily go that way as the other way, just like the numerous deaths in people with underlying conditions that the actual cause of death could have been the underlying condition.  

What makes you think it was a COVID infection not bacterial pneumonia as the authors conclude?  I'm no expert on any of this, I just try to read and analyze and think.   Especially when the words "safe and effective" are thrown around, and the usually safety studies were not done, adequate time has not passed, some people are making a lot of money, and multiple reputable individuals are raising questions and self-reported adverse effects and deaths are high and I have a responsibility to do no harm.  How many pharmaceuticals have been approved through the normal protocol and then later taken off the market due to adverse events?  Part of me is worried about the future of the world.  

Here's another interesting article which states in its discussion - 

"Nonetheless, evidence of systemic detection of spike and S1 protein production from the mRNA-1273 vaccine is significant and has not yet been described in any vaccine study, likely due to limitations in assay sensitivity and timing assessment. The clinical relevance of this finding is unknown and should be further explored. These data show that S1 antigen production after the initial vaccination can be detected by day 1 and is present beyond the site of injection and the associated regional lymph nodes."

https://academic.oup.com/cid/advance-article/doi/10.1093/cid/ciab465/6279075#

My understanding was that the vaccine was designed only to express membrane-anchored antigen.

"What makes you think it was a COVID infection not bacterial pneumonia as the authors conclude?"

-the reason is that secondary, bacterial infection is commonly a result of covid infection. Covid infects, the immune system over reacts, bacteria invade, death (obviously abbreviated). It's not the initial cause of disease, but secondary infections are common in respiratory viral infections, especially covid. The authors concluded there was covid infection, but that the classic injury from covid was substantially less than previously observed. Given this person was vaccinated they suggest the vaccine had protective effects. I agree with that conclusion. I'd have a hard time assuming all those films in the referred table were just spike protein. It was probably viral particles. I would have to defer to them on that since I have no idea how to read tissue samples like a pathologist.

"But, would this man have even been in there if he hadn't had the vaccine?  Was his death indirectly as a result of the vaccine?"

-I seriously doubt it. Disclaimer: I don't know what I'm talking about, not an expert, blah blah blah. The fact he was 4 weeks post vaccine suggests to me a couple possibilities. 1) his immune system was severely compromised. This makes sense in light of his previous strokes and age and all that. The guy was at high risk. 2) he was in a nursing home. Close quarters. We all know from new York how easily covid spreads in nursing homes. 3) I've yet to see a credible case made that the vaccine is, itself the cause of covid infection. I have reservations about new technology in this space but, as with all vaccines, the primary disease vector is not active. So no, I doubt he got covid infection from the vaccine. That's just not how this works. He was 4 weeks out. If the vaccine was to blame (and this is my big reason) we would see a spike in vaccine mediated injury than we do. So while I'm concerned about vaccine injury, it doesn't appear to be long term. If you get it, it's earlier, not later. But this is the problem. The virus kills people. Do we wait to have the answer? What if the vaccine could avoid many deaths? Cost benefits. Valid point. In any case, your case study suggests to me, the elderly are high risk, vaccination does provide protection, and the jury is out on the effects of wide spread vaccine distribution in the body. 

"My understanding was that the vaccine was designed only to express membrane-anchored antigen."

-yes, that was my understanding too. Clearly that is not the case. There does appear to be wide distribution of this vaccine (or rather it's products):

 "..this study, 11 participants exhibit S1 antigen in plasma after the first injection, whereas nucleocapsid concentrations are insignificant in all participants, confirming that the detected S1 originates from vaccination and not natural infection."

-its a valid concern. Sigh. I wish this was easier. Once the mrna lands, makes spike, apparently they are able to circulate. But they don't have replication hardware like a virus particle would:

"Clearance of detectable SARS-CoV-2 protein correlated with production of immunoglobulin G (IgG) and immunoglobulin A (IgA)"

-to me this suggests that the immune system has the ability to clear the antigen. Risk vs reward. No we do NOT know everything we need to know about this vaccine. Clearly. But, IMO, we know enough about the virus to know the risk of infection is higher than the risk of vaccination, at least at this point. We work in health care. Highest risk if infection. At this point in my research, neither is good, but one is better than the other. If I didn't work in health care, I would just skip it. I'm not high morbidity risk given my demographics. But I am high infection risk. And what I've learned about auto immunogenicity concerns me more than theoretical risks from the vaccine at this point. 

Thanks for sharing this articles. 

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3 minutes ago, 10GaugeNeedles said:

I'm not high morbidity risk given my demographics. But I am high infection risk.

Everything you wrote makes a lot of sense.

You raise a good point about high infection risk.  You are worried about getting it, given you aren't high morbidity?  What happened to natural immunity being better than vaccine induced immunity?  

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Specializes in Acute Dialysis.
1 minute ago, mdOldie said:

 

Everything you wrote makes a lot of sense.

You raise a good point about high infection risk.  You are worried about getting it, given you aren't high morbidity?  What happened to natural immunity being better than vaccine induced immunity?  

I'm glad it made sense. Some times it's hard to tell if the people on this board can read English. LOL

Well basically, I was concerned about the vaccine because I was worried about acquired auto immunity. But looking into it,  reading through some studies I've discovered there's a high auto immune component as a result of the virus itself. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. But one consistent thing across the board is the presence of immune protection. That is clear.

As for natural immunity being necessarily "better",. I don't know I ever said that. If I did I retract it. In any case I have seen reports natural is at least AS GOOD as the vaccine, which the media and official sources pretend like natural immunity doesn't exist. That was my beef. 

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39 minutes ago, 10GaugeNeedles said:

As for natural immunity being necessarily "better",. I don't know I ever said that. If I did I retract it. In any case I have seen reports natural is at least AS GOOD as the vaccine, which the media and official sources pretend like natural immunity doesn't exist. That was my beef. 

I thought that natural immunity being better had been the prevailing science until the COVID vaccine, but maybe I was wrong.  I don't think you said it.  One of the studies I posted showed natural immunity was better for delta.  And I agree with you about the media and official sources pretending like natural immunity doesn't exist.  

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Specializes in Acute Dialysis.
8 minutes ago, mdOldie said:

I thought that natural immunity being better had been the prevailing science until the COVID vaccine, but maybe I was wrong.  I don't think you said it.  One of the studies I posted showed natural immunity was better for delta.  And I agree with you about the media and official sources pretending like natural immunity doesn't exist.  

I did see one (I can't remember where I saw it now) that suggested natural immunity to delta was slightly better (appr 3%) than the vaccines. But that makes sense since delta is a variant. 

But watching "official" news and sources is infuriating. It's the same thing I see from some on this forum. "just ignore, agree, and comply." Sigh...

Anyway, you said Chinese medicine etc. What's your opinion on Sinovax?

 

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Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
On 8/20/2021 at 4:13 PM, Seda8OR said:

Finally, my body my choice. 

My body MY choice. The anti vax bullies gleefully deprive me of body autonomy, and my freedom.

    I'm very happy to see that tolerance for the freedom hating anti vaxxers depriving us patriots of our freedom and body autonomy is coming to and end.

    For those who prefer to leave nursing rather than be vaccinated, Good riddance. 

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2 hours ago, anewsns said:
1 hour ago, 10GaugeNeedles said:

What's your opinion on Sinovax?

  

Haven't researched it at all.

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2 hours ago, 10GaugeNeedles said:

I'm not anti vaccination. I'm hesitant. I've laid out my concerns previously. My final conclusion is: I don't want to get infected (before I started researching I wasn't concerned. Now I am. So I'm motivated). I don't want to get injured by the vaccine (I know. Crazy right? How dumb is that? Nobody ever gets hurt. I know cause SAFE AND EFFECTIVE! SIGH.....). I voice my concerns and I'm called "antivax". I JUST got mmr and other boosters a freaking WEEK ago. But I'm still anti vax right? I'm the bad guy.

Fine. I'm the bad guy. I'm the cause of the pandemic. I'm sick of this. I'M SICK OF THIS! Yes, no thanks to the pro vaxxers, I've learned enough to be comfortable. No thanks to the pro vaxxers, I'm going to get vacinated. I learned in SPITE of your side. UNLIKE your side, I understand why people aren't comfortable doing whatever they are told by the media/government/big pharma cooperative. I'm getting vaccinated. But I despise the rhetoric from your side.

Your side is NOT helping. All they do is push people away and shame. Well when I got into nursing, I thought our only goal was to help people. I was wrong. I will get vaccinated. But I'll never be on your side. Your side is the problem and they don't care. I'll probably get deleted, but I hope you hear me. I'm angry at this point. 

Sorry for the delay but read your post fully.  Just a quick question, I have posted several times my extreme concern that 90%+ hospitalizations and deaths from covid since June 15th are patient's who were unvaccinated, do you think this is fake news?  Hospital garages turned into field hospitals, Oxygen and ventilator shortages. I had three patients die of H1N1 and had it and lost 30 lbs but that is a blip next to 600,000 Americans dead from covid. Is that fake news? There are no sides, this is gravely important for those unvaccinated. Again, it appears the delta virus is spreading quickly from low vaccinated areas to other low vaccinated areas.  There is a extreme concern for health risks in those unvaccinated and making it easier for the virus to mutate prolonging suffering and loss of life and prolonging the pandemic. The decision to not vaccinate affects others.  Your completely missing the point of why I am so concerned about people who choose not to take the covid vaccine. 

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Specializes in Acute Dialysis.
1 hour ago, lMCRN said:

Sorry for the delay but read your post fully.  Just a quick question, I have posted several times my extreme concern that 90%+ hospitalizations and deaths from covid since June 15th are patient's who were unvaccinated, do you think this is fake news?  Hospital garages turned into field hospitals, Oxygen and ventilator shortages. I had three patients die of H1N1 and had it and lost 30 lbs but that is a blip next to 600,000 Americans dead from covid. Is that fake news? There are no sides, this is gravely important for those unvaccinated. Again, it appears the delta virus is spreading quickly from low vaccinated areas to other low vaccinated areas.  There is a extreme concern for health risks in those unvaccinated and making it easier for the virus to mutate prolonging suffering and loss of life and prolonging the pandemic. The decision to not vaccinate affects others.  Your completely missing the point of why I am so concerned about people who choose not to take the covid vaccine. 

Sigh... Look. This isn't a population wide forum. Convincing me, or anyone else on this channel will not stop anything. Please don't couch the discussion in terms of saving the world. The pandemic is here. We are all in it. We are all humans. There are a million messages going around. You want to save the world, or at least this country, then go find a way to convince 100 million people they aren't being lied to because that's why they don't want the vaccine. I was under the impression this board was for nurses talking to other nurses. You don't need to convince me covid exists. I'm a nurse. I assume you are too. I'm just sharing my thoughts on something we are all subject to. Telling your japanese neighbor to hide under the bed in hiroshima wouldn't have stopped everyone for miles from ground zero dying from the initial nuclear blast. We are all in this. Let's try to be in it together.

"The decision to not vaccinate affects others. " no. No it does not. It MAY affect others. IT MAY do allot of things. I'm going to say it three times so you hear it clearly.

1) I'm going to get the vaccine.

2) I'm going to get the vaccine.

3) I'm going to get the vaccine.

Asked I'm going to do it the best way I know how, given the available information, knowing I had end up dead because of it!

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I wish you the best really. You sound really overwhelmed like many of us nowadays.

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Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.

Misrepresenting the purpose and function of the vaccines is dangerous and dishonest and doesn't represent the nursing profession very well. 

It's unfortunate that nurses feel so strongly about not protecting themselves with vaccination, during a terrible pandemic, that they would change their employment rather than comply with an employer mandate. The vaccines are safe and effective.  Why is so much preventable suffering and death acceptable to Americans?

 

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