Leaving Your Job Due to Mandate

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For those of you who have recognized your employer can terminate you for not taking the COVID vaccine and have decided on or are considering employment elsewhere please share your experiences here. How do you feel about having to make that choice? 

The purpose of this thread is not to condemn those making this decision or debate whether they should vaccinate or not. 

Specializes in Critical Care.
6 minutes ago, mdOldie said:

Sorry, my mistake.  The point is that the vaccine in and of itself is not effective.  This was in fully vaccinated healthcare workers - breakthrough cases. 251 times the viral load as the old strain.  So vaccinated healthcare workers are likely spreading COVID just as much as unvaccinated.  According to the FDA, https://www.fda.gov/media/139638/download a vaccine needs to have a 50% efficacy to be approved.  This preprint article puts Pfizer now at 42%https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.06.21261707v1.full.pdf

For those of you who state the vaccines are safe, take a hard look at the data and compare what there is with other drug trials for drugs that have been brought to market.  Do you see those long term placebo controlled trials for safety?  

And sure VAERS is user reported, but don't you find these numbers compelling?   And aren't we taught to listen to our patients?1822085432_ScreenShot2021-08-27at10_49_57PM.thumb.png.3726e292239511947c733f4f206617bc.png267941088_ScreenShot2021-08-27at10_50_10PM.thumb.png.da39d8db91f9909df0a87e3e0d0e70b1.png1323944683_ScreenShot2021-08-27at10_50_34PM.thumb.png.925ea5d7c60643af716e878c4331c42d.png

https://www.ronjohnson.senate.gov/services/files/A4A76F9A-9B29-4CF9-B987-F9097A3F4CB7

The study did not compare viral loads in those who were fully vaccinated with the unvaccinated, so I'm not sure where you are getting your conclusion from.

There are however a number of studies that compare viral loads in the vaccinated to the unvaccinated in apples-to-apples comparisons, this is one of the more recent and largest: Large U.K. study suggests fully vaccinated people are less likely to spread COVID | The Week

VAERS is a reporting system for all health events that occur after vaccination, it is not a list of confirmed adverse effects from vaccination.  The purpose of VAERS is to evaluate the profile of health events that occur after vaccination to detect unexpected health events.  When close to a couple of hundred million Americans have been vaccinated over the past year and a half, they will still have the non-Covid related health events that would have occurred had they not been vaccinated, this includes death, MI, stroke, etc.  Are you suggesting Covid vaccination is supposed to make people immortal?

8 minutes ago, mdOldie said:

How much have you studied the COVID vaccines?   Show me in the peer-reviewed literature where it states that the COVID vaccines "stimulate the immune system to produce immune responses that protect against infection."

Yes, that's a pretty straightforward description of how a number of vaccines work.

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Specializes in Critical Care.
43 minutes ago, 10GaugeNeedles said:

Exactly! you seem to be suggesting that nurses that don't want to be vaccinated should be. Why? Because pts.? I don't follow. Especially if the nurses are using paprs or n95s. what gives here? What do the nurses have to do with it?

I think you're conflating a couple of different issues.  I was responding to the general argument that Covid isn't really that bad, and that vaccines don't really offer all that much benefit.

Those who are unvaccinated have been shown to have a higher potential to transmit Covid to others, so when caring for non-Covid patients, the patient is better protected from avoidable harm when the staff caring for them is vaccinated.

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Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
18 minutes ago, 10GaugeNeedles said:

You can not be serious. I mean, I've seen blind before but this is incredible. I could make a career out of you. LOL..

You don't recognize that description of vaccines, you don't agree with the definition, or you don't think that the source was credible? You've admitted before that you are unsure where to find good information. It appears that you are just looking for an personal argument. 

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Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
17 minutes ago, mdOldie said:

How much have you studied the COVID vaccines?   Show me in the peer-reviewed literature where it states that the COVID vaccines "stimulate the immune system to produce immune responses that protect against infection."

COVID-19 and mRNA Vaccines—First Large Test for a New Approach

Amplifying RNA Vaccine Development

Prevention and Attenuation of Covid-19 with the BNT162b2 and mRNA-1273 Vaccines

Infectious disease mRNA vaccines and a review on epitope prediction for vaccine design

 

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Specializes in Acute Dialysis.
20 minutes ago, MunoRN said:

I think you're conflating a couple of different issues.  I was responding to the general argument that Covid isn't really that bad, and that vaccines don't really offer all that much benefit.

Those who are unvaccinated have been shown to have a higher potential to transmit Covid to others, so when caring for non-Covid patients, the patient is better protected from avoidable harm when the staff caring for them is vaccinated.

OK. Let me lay this out. Covid unit. Terrible. Sad. All the pts on this unit have diagnosis. Confirmed. Can they get "worse covid"? No. Sure if unvaccinated nurses get floated from covid units to non covid units, sure that is a concern. But from my knowledge, those on a covid unit stay on the covid unit. No? What difference does it make if the nurse is vaccinated? They can't spread it to the covid pts. So. How bout non covid pts? How bout all NON covid units staffed with vaccinated nurse? That would make sense. And the hospital could retain it's staff without mandates. I have not heard this idea discussed literally anywhere. All I hear is GET VACCINATED! PERIOD!" It's never specific to anything. 

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11 minutes ago, toomuchbaloney said:

COVID-19 and mRNA Vaccines—First Large Test for a New Approach

Amplifying RNA Vaccine Development

Prevention and Attenuation of Covid-19 with the BNT162b2 and mRNA-1273 Vaccines

Infectious disease mRNA vaccines and a review on epitope prediction for vaccine design

 

Sorry, what I meant to say was the vaccines don't provide immunity.  Now they are having waning efficacy - one of those studies was the precurser to the preprint one I shared with the waning efficacy.  Another preprint article, large study out of Israel, documents that natural immunity is better than vaccine induced immunity for Delta. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v1.full.pdf   So why force those who have had it to get vaccinated?  And if vaccination primarily protects those who get it, then why mandate it for those who make different choices for themselves?  Does vaccination really stop the spread or does staying home when you have symptoms stop the spread?  Hand hygiene, PPE etc.  With data coming in that vaccinated people are spreading it and the huge increase in breakthrough cases it doesn't seem like vaccination is effective on that front.

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Specializes in A variety.
13 minutes ago, mdOldie said:

 1. So why force those who have had it to get vaccinated?

2.  And if vaccination primarily protects those who get it, then why mandate it for those who make different choices for themselves?  Does vaccination really stop the spread or does staying home when you have symptoms stop the spread?  Hand hygiene, PPE etc. 

3.With data coming in that vaccinated people are spreading it and the huge increase in breakthrough cases it doesn't seem like vaccination is effective on that front.

1. Been saying this for a while. Best answer I get is the CDCs 300 person study from Kentucky that you're 2.34x to get reinfected.  Nevermind other studies that show the contrary.  The next argument is being more likely to spread it because the CDC says unvaccinated "appear" to spread it more.  However vaccinated people can still spread it and the CDC is still assessing.  Not saying their wrong but doesn't sound clear cut.

CDC is funded by pharmaceutical companies btw. Is that a bad thing or innocent? Could be either but interesting discussion. 

2. The argument is its for the patients.  If you don't get the vaccine you're putting the other unvaccinated patients at risk.... because the vaccinated ones should be protected already. The unvaccinated are also putting each other at risk then go to the hospital. Fair enough.  There's argument to be made about forcing the previously infected to take the drug. 

3. Back to the CDC saying they "appear" to spread it "less" . Now in fairness we see most hospitalized people now are unvaccinated.  That's a big deal. What's not being said is if those people had COVID  before or not. If they did I believe it would be retorted. It would justify the shot more. 

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The covid vaccine is safe and covid will weed out the unfortunate anti vaxers that were given a chance to not be hospitalized and or lose their life due unfounded fear. 

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Specializes in A variety.
21 minutes ago, lMCRN said:

The covid vaccine is safe and covid will weed out the unfortunate anti vaxers that were given a chance to not be hospitalized and or lose their life due unfounded fear. 

What do you mean "weed them out"

Be specific

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By natural selection, 90% plus covid hospitalized/expired patients since June 15th are unvaccinated. While most of the postings here debate whether covid vaccines are safe have disregarded recent stats that should be very alarming for the unvaccinated. 
This delta surge was entirely preventable and to be unvaccinated is incredibly selfish, just because you don’t live in Texas or Alabama doesn’t mean you shouldn’t care, look at the facts running out of oxygen, ventilators and staff. The families that lose parents, children and friends. The mutated strains jump from low vaccinated areas to other low vaccinated areas and other strains already identified.

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Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
1 hour ago, mdOldie said:

Sorry, what I meant to say was the vaccines don't provide immunity.  Now they are having waning efficacy - one of those studies was the precurser to the preprint one I shared with the waning efficacy.  Another preprint article, large study out of Israel, documents that natural immunity is better than vaccine induced immunity for Delta. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v1.full.pdf   So why force those who have had it to get vaccinated?  And if vaccination primarily protects those who get it, then why mandate it for those who make different choices for themselves?  Does vaccination really stop the spread or does staying home when you have symptoms stop the spread?  Hand hygiene, PPE etc.  With data coming in that vaccinated people are spreading it and the huge increase in breakthrough cases it doesn't seem like vaccination is effective on that front.

No one is forced. 

Those previously infected are not forced. 

Vaccination is more effective than infection at ending the pandemic unless you don't mind widespread illness, hospitalization and death as herd immunity is achieved.  So far, the entire world seems to have acknowledged that vaccination is the desired pathway to herd immunity. It was a rough year without vaccine in 2020. Our health system is not equipped to handle this amount of illness and suffering.  

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Specializes in Hospice.
On 8/28/2021 at 2:10 AM, jive turkey said:

What do you mean "weed them out"

Be specific

“Killed off”  That’s how natural selection works.

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