It's not my job to pray with you.

Nurses Spirituality

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I am not religious. I do not pray. If praying makes you feel good then awesome. Do that. When patients are religious and need spirutual support, I am the first one to find their local pastor/rabbi/medicine man/etc. for them. This is how I can support my patient. I do not feel however, that I should be pressured to say prayers. yes, I will give my patient space and quiet time to pray if they want, but i don't feel it's my job to pray with patients. I feel this is over the line.

Specializes in Critical Care.
MunoRN,

Like I posted earlier, if you go back in history, Islam is only as old as A.D. 610. Islam and Judaism only share certain things in that Mohamed picked and chose what he liked from Judaism and wove it into his religion. Judaism goes back 4000 years.

If you read the Old Testament, the LORD God of the Bible is not the same as Allah in Islam. It is a shame that in the West, people are deceived to think that Islam can coexist with other religions. It is not possible. If you listen to former Muslims turned Christian, or even sometimes in the news, Muslims under the excuse of jihad, kill thousands of Christians, call them infidels, try to 'convert' them. They themselves do not consider Christianity equal; that would be treason against their religion.

Why is that necessary if Christianity is on par with Islam and the LORD Jehovah of the Bible equal to Allah? Should they not live in peace then, since everything is the same? The reason is, Islam and Christianity are as alike as darkness and light. There is no crossover.

For anyone reading this post.....as Islam was the subject brought up in an earlier post, that is why it is being mentioned here. I am not disregarding other religions apart from Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, it is just that these three were being discussed.

Thanks for reading. :)

I can't tell if you're just willfully ignorant of the historical context of Islam or if you're so arrogantly religiocentric that it's actually overridden basic facts and rationale in your mind.

Yes, Islam came about hundreds of years after Christianity, just as Christianity came hundreds of years after Judaism, yet that doesn't somehow mean that Christianity doesn't base much if itself in the Old Testament derived from Judaism any less than Islam bases it's beliefs in both the Old and New Testaments.

Islam interprets the Old and New Testaments differently, just as Christianity interprets the Old Testament differently than Judaism. Even within Christianity, different denominations and sects interpret both books differently, that's a major part of what differentiates them, but they still are generally based in the Old and New Testaments.

There certainly are some muslims who interpret their religious beliefs to mean they should commit acts that the majority see as incompatible with their beliefs such as murdering "infidels" (a term borrowed from Christianity), Christianity certainly can't claim such things have never happened within it's religion. Just as with Christianity, it's not the majority of muslims that hold those views. Muslims and can and do live peacefully among people of other religions including Christians. There is a large Muslim community where I live and you'd be surprised to know they have yet to kill me, or anyone for that matter.

Just to clarify....you are mistaken. Hppygr8ful said "Muslims, Jewish and Christians all believe in the same God they just worship in different ways." THIS is correct.

The G'd of Islam is the same G'd of Judaism is the same G'd of Christianity.

Christians believe that Jesus was the son of G'd, appeared on the earth as the Messiah, and will return. Ok. Jews believe that G'd WILL send a Messiah, but it will not be a "divine" actual "son", and that He has never "begat" a son. Muslims have the Prophet Muhammad, which is neither. Jesus would be viewed as a prophet, not a divine being.

The differences aren't in which G'd is recognized, it's which Messiah is (or is not) recognized.

Messianic positions are different, but the Almighty IS the very same: the G'd of Abraham, who fathered both Isaac (and began a line of Judaism) and Ishmael (and began the line for Islam).

G'd is viewed differently, interpreted differently, depending on who is doing the reading...AND the writing. Heck, there's a pretty big division on what the G'd of the Old Testament and the G'd of the New Testament "is like"...Vengeful? Merciful?...and no one considers them to NOT be the same G'd. Different perspectives.....same Being.

Worth clarifying.

Out of curiosity, why is the name of GOD redacted in your post ? I have only seen that used on words that are considered profane or offensive.

Just to clarify....you are mistaken. Hppygr8ful said "Muslims, Jewish and Christians all believe in the same God they just worship in different ways." THIS is correct.

The G'd of Islam is the same G'd of Judaism is the same G'd of Christianity.

Christians believe that Jesus was the son of G'd, appeared on the earth as the Messiah, and will return. Ok. Jews believe that G'd WILL send a Messiah, but it will not be a "divine" actual "son", and that He has never "begat" a son. Muslims have the Prophet Muhammad, which is neither. Jesus would be viewed as a prophet, not a divine being.

The differences aren't in which G'd is recognized, it's which Messiah is (or is not) recognized.

Messianic positions are different, but the Almighty IS the very same: the G'd of Abraham, who fathered both Isaac (and began a line of Judaism) and Ishmael (and began the line for Islam).

G'd is viewed differently, interpreted differently, depending on who is doing the reading...AND the writing. Heck, there's a pretty big division on what the G'd of the Old Testament and the G'd of the New Testament "is like"...Vengeful? Merciful?...and no one considers them to NOT be the same G'd. Different perspectives.....same Being.

Worth clarifying.

I don't need clarification and no it is not correct. The very definition of the God in the bible that I serve does not meet with Islam's definition of God. The bible is very clear on who God is/is not and it tells you how to spot a phony and how to respond. I do not doubt that they believe that they worship the one true God but many people believe that in error. They serve a god masquerading as the father and are wholly convinced. As far as the history lessons I am speaking of spiritual matters not the reasoning of man in his own wisdom. This thread has derailed quite a bit so I will be bowing out. I understand that I will not change your mind and you certainly won't change mine. All the best.

My God is better than your god argument. I think we've gone as far as we can on this thread.

Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
My God is better than your god argument. I think we've gone as far as we can on this thread.

And it's STILL not my job to pray with you.

Out of curiosity, why is the name of GOD redacted in your post ? I have only seen that used on words that are considered profane or offensive.

Then I would expect you haven't read any writings by observant Jews.

It is out of reverence and respect that His name is written as G'd or G-d. Why? Because writing out any variation of what we consider His Name to be would subject it to the possibility (probability) that the paper it is written on could be destroyed. Written, typed, printed....all the same. If there is any possibility that the Name could be erased/damaged/destroyed....it is simply not done.

Computer text is just as likely to be edited/deleted as anything handwritten on paper.

Not ALL Jews do this, but then not all Jews (like not all Christians) follow exactly the same doctrines. This one I was taught in childhood, and most Jews I know DO do it this way.

I don't need clarification and no it is not correct. The very definition of the God in the bible that I serve does not meet with Islam's definition of God. The bible is very clear on who God is/is not and it tells you how to spot a phony and how to respond. I do not doubt that they believe that they worship the one true God but many people believe that in error. They serve a god masquerading as the father and are wholly convinced. As far as the history lessons I am speaking of spiritual matters not the reasoning of man in his own wisdom. This thread has derailed quite a bit so I will be bowing out. I understand that I will not change your mind and you certainly won't change mine. All the best.

Pretty sure there are Muslims who would take issue with this....heck, I suspect most non-Muslims as well. But it is what it is. I also believe that anyone who believes he alone "knows" the One True G-d, and that G-d is ONLY in "his corner", closing off discussion and all other testimony...I believe that person is sadly missing so much. This goes for any faith/religion/doctrine one chooses to follow. I question those who are so 100% certain that THEY are the only ones who know "The Truth", and that every other person on the planet is wrong. In Yiddish this would be known as "chutzpah".

Recognizing that others arrive at spiritual satisfaction in different ways than myself, and knowing they are not less valid than my own is what adds to MY spiritual satisfaction. They don't have to be proven wrong to make me comfortable with my own beliefs. I don't have to declare anyone else "a phony".

I am offering what ties us together spiritually; you are most interested in tearing people apart. I find it sad that you are so certain that there is NO other path to G-d than the very narrow one you prefer to walk. That's a shame in my mind. So yes....I agree that we cannot agree on this most basic tenement of faith.

Although I don't believe than anyone should be "forced" to pray with a patient, I find that sometimes as a nurse you would do anything to offer your patient or their family comfort. I have witnessed situations so heartbreaking that I would do almost anything to help. I know that not everyone feels the same, but that has been my experience. I think sometimes it really is the little things that help people feel better; sitting down to have a chat, taking a little extra time on personal care, rubbing lotion on an elderly patient's back who has been confined to a bed and restrained, grabbing something that the patient likes or needs, or saying a prayer( even if you aren't actually praying.) I think making patients feel cared for can be therapeutic. I think spiritual care is just one little trick that I carry around in my hat. If that is what my patient needs at the time, I'm game..especially when everything in their life sucks!

Now back to the OP: ;)

It is a nurse's responsibility to ensure that the emotional and spiritual needs of the patient is met. It is not the responsibility of the nurse to do everything himself/herself to accomplish that goal.

If the nurse is comfortable with doing that for/with the patient....go for it! If not....simply put in motion whatever is appropriate to facilitate meeting that need (ie: contacting pastoral services, etc.).

My response to requests has been different in different circumstances; I have no "cookie cutter" approach. I am neither full-bore "involved" nor full-bore "non-involved". It depends on the situation how much I personally am going to do regarding a patient's spiritual needs. But I danged sure am not going to ignore those needs if I don't want to personally handle them--I follow up with someone who absolutely will.

Really that simple, honestly.

OK, OK. OP, you're right. Not your job. The benefit to the patient's well-being is supported scientifically. One tidbit: "An interesting bit of science attached to this ethnocentric and geocentric evolution of prayer comes out of Duke University Medical Center, where a study found that, within a group of 150 cardiac patients who received alternative post-operative therapy treatment, the sub-group who also received intercessory prayer (they were prayed for) had the highest success rate within the entire cohort."

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/enlightened-living/201007/the-science-psychology-and-metaphysics-prayer

"The Science, Psychology, and Metaphysics of Prayer." Religion, Spirituality, and Health: The Research and Clinical Implications

Many more studies support this.

There have been serious criticisms of the methodology of the studies that found a positive effect for intercessory prayer, and other studies have shown the opposite results.

"Prayers offered by strangers had no effect on the recovery of people who were undergoing heart surgery, a large and long-awaited study has found.

And patients who knew they were being prayed for had a higher rate of post-operative complications like abnormal heart rhythms, perhaps because of the expectations the prayers created, the researchers suggested.

Because it is the most scientifically rigorous investigation of whether prayer can heal illness, the study, begun almost a decade ago and involving more than 1,800 patients, has for years been the subject of speculation."

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/31/health/31pray.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Maybe they are teaching that the nurse is just as important as the patient these days, but it has not always been so.

If you needed the "morning after" pill, should a pharmacist be allowed to not fill the Rx for you due to his or her personal disagreement with people using it? Who's more important - the raped patient or the pharmacist?

There are no easy answers, I'm just thinking out loud.

Your example doesn't really apply. One can't access rx medication without the pharmacist (and you might be thinking of RU-486, since the "morning after pill" is available over the counter), but people are entirely capable of praying alone. They might like someone with them (for what, an audience??), but they don't need someone with them in order to be able to pray.

Specializes in Critical Care, Med-Surg, Psych, Geri, LTC, Tele,.

Can we please stop the Christians vs Muslims debate? Respect is key! I'm Christian. My ex is Muslim. The media spewed such hate toward Muslims that many relatives wrongly assumed many false beliefs r/t Islam.

Just stop!

We prayed together, as we both believed / believe in God. He's the same for us both.

Just please stop!

Can we get some solidarity, love and respect for others?!?!?!

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