It's not my job to pray with you.

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I am not religious. I do not pray. If praying makes you feel good then awesome. Do that. When patients are religious and need spirutual support, I am the first one to find their local pastor/rabbi/medicine man/etc. for them. This is how I can support my patient. I do not feel however, that I should be pressured to say prayers. yes, I will give my patient space and quiet time to pray if they want, but i don't feel it's my job to pray with patients. I feel this is over the line.

Muslims believe Jesus was the messiah, that he performed miracles, that he was crucified and raised to heaven, and that he will rise again on the day of judgement.

Sort of.... :)

Muslims believe Jesus to be a prophet, but not so strongly aligned with Christianity's beliefs about divinity. They do not believe him to be the literal "son of G-d"; they go with the idea of a virgin birth, but that's not the same thing as a Divine Son (a miracle, but not proof that G-d was Dad). They don't have him as a "Saviour".

They DON'T believe he was crucified, they believe he was rescued by G-d, "lifted" to Heaven; they believe G'd saved Jesus because of his having performed miracles. It was not Jesus who "saved" the world, "dying for our our sins" as the Christians believe. They DO think he'll be sent back to Earth, but he'll die then as a Muslim (having died as a Jew initially). Mohammed also got "lifted" to Heaven, on a white horse, but I don't remember what was supposed to happen later with him....drawing a blank there.

At any rate, Jesus is a much more powerful being in Islam than in Judaism, although not as powerful as he is in Christianity. Still, I too am surprised that there are Christians who don't see HOW closely aligned the three religions are!

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Sort of.... :)

Muslims believe Jesus to be a prophet, but not so strongly aligned with Christianity's beliefs about divinity. They do not believe him to be the literal "son of G-d"; they go with the idea of a virgin birth, but that's not the same thing as a Divine Son (a miracle, but not proof that G-d was Dad). They don't have him as a "Saviour".

They DON'T believe he was crucified, they believe he was rescued by G-d, "lifted" to Heaven; they believe G'd saved Jesus because of his having performed miracles. It was not Jesus who "saved" the world, "dying for our our sins" as the Christians believe. They DO think he'll be sent back to Earth, but he'll die then as a Muslim (having died as a Jew initially). Mohammed also got "lifted" to Heaven, on a white horse, but I don't remember what was supposed to happen later with him....drawing a blank there.

At any rate, Jesus is a much more powerful being in Islam than in Judaism, although not as powerful as he is in Christianity. Still, I too am surprised that there are Christians who don't see HOW closely aligned the three religions are!

After doing some research, it appears Muslims are divided over whether or not Jesus was crucified. Some believe he was, but was bodily raised to heaven by God before he actually died on the cross. Others believe he was never put on the cross at all, but rather God created an illusion to make people think he (Jesus) was crucified when he wasn't.

That Jesus never died on the cross is without question (from a Muslim point of view), what is less clear is whether or not he was nailed to the cross, but physically raised to Heaven before he died on it, or if he was never nailed to the cross at all, and it was an illusion made by God.

In any event, it really is surprising how many Christians have wildly incorrect assumptions about what Islam is and what Muslims believe.

Of course, it goes both ways. It is widely believed among Muslims that Chrstians worship Mary on an equal level with God. And most Muslims interpret the doctrine of the Holy Trinity as proof that Chrstians worship more than one God.

So between Christians believing Muslims worship some pagan desert god named Allah, and Muslims believing Chrisitans are Polytheistic barbarians, it's little wonder both sides fail to realize how interconnected their two religions are.

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After doing some research, it appears Muslims are divided over whether or not Jesus was crucified. Some believe he was, but was bodily raised to heaven by God before he actually died on the cross. Others believe he was never put on the cross at all, but rather God created an illusion to make people think he (Jesus) was crucified when he wasn't.

That Jesus never died on the cross is without question (from a Muslim point of view), what is less clear is whether or not he was nailed to the cross, but physically raised to Heaven before he died on it, or if he was never nailed to the cross at all, and it was an illusion made by God.

Thanks for delving in; I didn't realize there WAS a division on that topic. I got my info from a friend who is a practicing Muslim (yes, LOL, Jews and Muslims CAN be friends!!). She was pretty clear on what she presented to me, so it stuck in my mind as "this is what it is".

In any event, it really is surprising how many Christians have wildly incorrect assumptions about what Islam is and what Muslims believe.

Of course, it goes both ways. It is widely believed among Muslims that Chrstians worship Mary on an equal level with God. And most Muslims interpret the doctrine of the Holy Trinity as proof that Chrstians worship more than one God.

I struggle with this concept myself, that being that Christians can define JESUS as G-d (part of a Trinity) but NOT be G-d. Or BE G-d. etc....it gets complicated for me! My husband is Christian and we have some interesting conversations as you can imagine....and despite explanations I don't get it. Jesus is G-d...but not G-d....but PART of G-d....I give up! Until he next tries to explain it, LOL...

So between Christians believing Muslims worship some pagan desert god named Allah, and Muslims believing Chrisitans are Polytheistic barbarians, it's little wonder both sides fail to realize how interconnected their two religions are.

What's actually funny about what you wrote is that pagans ARE polytheistic by definition, LOL....but each one is really monotheistic (claiming the other is pagan!). Ok, funny to me....

But hey, at least my friend (Muslim) recognizes we're "cousins" of a sort ;)

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Specializes in Oncology; medical specialty website.
Thanks for delving in; I didn't realize there WAS a division on that topic. I got my info from a friend who is a practicing Muslim (yes, LOL, Jews and Muslims CAN be friends!!). She was pretty clear on what she presented to me, so it stuck in my mind as "this is what it is".

I struggle with this concept myself, that being that Christians can define JESUS as G-d (part of a Trinity) but NOT be G-d. Or BE G-d. etc....it gets complicated for me! My husband is Christian and we have some interesting conversations as you can imagine....and despite explanations I don't get it. Jesus is G-d...but not G-d....but PART of G-d....I give up! Until he next tries to explain it, LOL...

What's actually funny about what you wrote is that pagans ARE polytheistic by definition, LOL....but each one is really monotheistic (claiming the other is pagan!). Ok, funny to me....

But hey, at least my friend (Muslim) recognizes we're "cousins" of a sort ;)

Not all Christians believe in a triune God. In my faith, God, Christ, and the Holy Spirit are separate.

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Not all Christians believe in a triune God. In my faith, God, Christ, and the Holy Spirit are separate.

Not a Trinity, per se, that have each as part of a whole? Learn something new every day, which is why I like this board :)

I remember someone (who was Born Again? Fundamentalist?) saying that Catholics aren't Christians, something having to do with deity approach.....reasons seemed odd but hey, whatever makes the world go round!

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Specializes in Oncology; medical specialty website.
Not a Trinity, per se, that have each as part of a whole? Learn something new every day, which is why I like this board :)

I remember someone (who was Born Again? Fundamentalist?) saying that Catholics aren't Christians, something having to do with deity approach.....reasons seemed odd but hey, whatever makes the world go round!

No, each are separate. There is God, His son Christ Jesus, and God's active force, known as the Holy Spirit.

If you're interested, I can explain it a little more fully in a PM. I don't want to get into a huge debate with a bunch of people here. The last time I tried to do that, it got ugly, so I'm not interested in repeating that again.

I remember that as well. I think it's one thing to discuss things respectfully, even if there are differences. It's quite another to trash beliefs that likely have been held dear.

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No, each are separate. There is God, His son Christ Jesus, and God's active force, known as the Holy Spirit.

If you're interested, I can explain it a little more fully in a PM. I don't want to get into a huge debate with a bunch of people here. The last time I tried to do that, it got ugly, so I'm not interested in repeating that again.

I remember that as well. I think it's one thing to discuss things respectfully, even if there are differences. It's quite another to trash beliefs that likely have been held dear.

If you don't mind, I'd actually like that. Particularly about how the Holy Spirit is a different force than G'd.

Thanks :)

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Specializes in Oncology; medical specialty website.
If you don't mind, I'd actually like that. Particularly about how the Holy Spirit is a different force than G'd.

Thanks :)

OK. Let me get back to you tomorrow; it's been a long day and I am really tired.

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Specializes in MICU, SICU, CICU.
I am not religious. I do not pray. If praying makes you feel good then awesome. Do that. When patients are religious and need spirutual support, I am the first one to find their local pastor/rabbi/medicine man/etc. for them. This is how I can support my patient. I do not feel however, that I should be pressured to say prayers. yes, I will give my patient space and quiet time to pray if they want, but i don't feel it's my job to pray with patients. I feel this is over the line.

I totally agree with the original poster. It is incredibly selfish and presumptous to even ask. My beliefs are deeply personal and the nurse patient relationship is not. I do not share that aspect of myself with a strangers, and especially not with posters on an anonymous internet forum. I certainly will not pretend to pray for a stranger or to comfort a patient in that manner.

I can count on one hand the number of times that I have prayed with a patient and those few were people whom I trusted and had known for many years.

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Specializes in Med/Surg, orthopedics, urology.

You are absolutely right. Thank you for the insight and the article.

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You should not be FORCED, REQUIRED OR EXPECTED TO participate in religious activities simply b/c it will make someone else feel better. Just like people want you to respect their beliefs ...then people need to respect your beliefs or lack there of! It's a two-way street!

And Legally it's not your job to pray with patients.

SMH

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OK, OK. OP, you're right. Not your job. The benefit to the patient's well-being is supported scientifically. One tidbit: "An interesting bit of science attached to this ethnocentric and geocentric evolution of prayer comes out of Duke University Medical Center, where a study found that, within a group of 150 cardiac patients who received alternative post-operative therapy treatment, the sub-group who also received intercessory prayer (they were prayed for) had the highest success rate within the entire cohort."

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/enlightened-living/201007/the-science-psychology-and-metaphysics-prayer

"The Science, Psychology, and Metaphysics of Prayer." Religion, Spirituality, and Health: The Research and Clinical Implications

Many more studies support this. But if you believe your ethical principles trump a possible improvement of patient well-being, you must have some very good reasons that I have no way of comprehending. I like science, and I am an atheist, but I want to do what is in my power to (possibly) improve outcomes. In the end--nope, not your job. Carry on.

Shh... I don't pray either. I Kind of just support in silence. (Bonus: When a family member faints from emotional exhaustion, I'm there to help.)

I wonder if they'll fire me.

These studies are not scientifically defensible. How does anyone know that no one was praying for the patients in the control group?

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