It's not my job to pray with you.

Here.I.Stand, BSN, RN · Jul 14, 2015

Most of those passages refer to mixing religions--believers with nonbelievers, which generally led to the believers being influenced by idolatry-- nothing to do with ethnicity.

The Matthew passage has nothing to do with marriage at all. Sheep is a metaphor for believers, goats is one for not.

As for Aaron and Miriam who spoke against Moses for marrying Tzipporah? First of all, that is not doctrine, it's historical record. Second, have you read the following sentences to see how God dealt with Miriam and Aaron? Let me know if you take away from Numbers that God in the Bible forbids interracial marriage.

Daniel 2:43 - And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.
Numbers 12:1 - And Miriam and Aaron spake against Moses because of the Ethiopian woman whom he had married: for he had married an Ethiopian woman.
Acts 16:1 - Then came he to Derbe and Lystra: and, behold, a certain disciple was there, named Timotheus, the son of a certain woman, which was a Jewess, and believed; but his father [was] a Greek:
Judges 14:1-20 - And Samson went down to Timnath, and saw a woman in Timnath of the daughters of the Philistines.
Matthew 25:32 - And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth [his] sheep from the goats
Nehemiah 13:23-30 - In those days also saw I Jews [that] had married wives of Ashdod, of Ammon, [and] of Moab:

OCNRN63, RN · Jul 14, 2015

To the OP--
I agree completely, actually, and it holds true for the religious as well. A Muslim or Jehovah's Witness RN shouldn't be pressured to pray to Jesus. I as a Reformed Christian don't participate in Hail Marys or tribal religious rites. You as an agnostic should not be pressured to do similar.

I want to make sure people understand that Jehovah's Witnesses believe Jesus Christ is their savior, and that all prayers offered to God (Jehovah) are through his son's name, Jesus Christ.

Some people mistakenly think that we don't believe in Jesus's existence. We do.

OCNRN63, RN · Jul 14, 2015

OK, OK. OP, you're right. Not your job. The benefit to the patient's well-being is supported scientifically. One tidbit: "An interesting bit of science attached to this ethnocentric and geocentric evolution of prayer comes out of Duke University Medical Center, where a study found that, within a group of 150 cardiac patients who received alternative post-operative therapy treatment, the sub-group who also received intercessory prayer (they were prayed for) had the highest success rate within the entire cohort."
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/enlightened-living/201007/the-science-psychology-and-metaphysics-prayer
"The Science, Psychology, and Metaphysics of Prayer." Religion, Spirituality, and Health: The Research and Clinical Implications
Many more studies support this. But if you believe your ethical principles trump a possible improvement of patient well-being, you must have some very good reasons that I have no way of comprehending. I like science, and I am an atheist, but I want to do what is in my power to (possibly) improve outcomes. In the end--nope, not your job. Carry on.
Shh... I don't pray either. I Kind of just support in silence. (Bonus: When a family member faints from emotional exhaustion, I'm there to help.)
I wonder if they'll fire me.

The study didn't say that the prayer had to come from the patient's nurse, and the OP made it clear she would get the chaplain if the patient wanted to pray.

Here.I.Stand, BSN, RN · Jul 14, 2015

I see. I know our understanding of who Jesus is is different, and the doctrine of the Trinity is one of the big differences between your faith and mine; I didn't know prayers are offered in His name in yours. Thanks for the correction! :)

Here.I.Stand, BSN, RN · Jul 14, 2015

Oh, and a quick addition to my post above with the Bible references: ^^^ In the NT, "Greek" is often used interchangeably with "Gentile." This again is a religious differentiation, not an ethnic one. For example, Jesus came "for the Jew first, and also to the Greek." "Here there is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus," etc.

Timothy, a young disciple of the apostle Paul, was the son of a Jewish mother and Greek pagan father. His mother and grandmother were Jewish born believers in Jesus and taught him the Scriptures (which at the time before the NT was written, meant the Jewish scriptures collectively called the Old Testament by today's Christian). This contrasts with the marriages in Nehemiah etc. where the culture began to shift toward the pagan religions.

Just wanted to clarify that the meaning of the word is different than Greek as in geographically between Italian and Turkish. :)

Parakeet · Jul 14, 2015

Actually you are incorrect. Jews do not believe that Jesus is the Messiah. Muslims,although they do not believe that Jesus is the begotten son of God, believe that Jesus is the Messiah and will return again to lead all believers. He will arrive right before judgement day. He is referred to in both the Quran and the oral traditions of the Prophet Muhammad (sav) as al- Mesih or the messiah, the Anointed One, and the Son of Mary.Jesus is considered a holy prophet in Islam who was born of the virgin Mary and became man. The major difference is that he is considered man not the begotten son of God. The word Allah is interchangeable with the word God. Al (the) Ilah (god). Islam, like Judaism places a much stronger emphasis on strict monotheism. "The" or "Al" is like the capital "G" in God as opposed to god. Islam is also one of the Abrahamic faiths that has many more similarities than differences to the other Abrahamics faiths, Christianity and Judaism.
I understand that some churches are teaching that Muslims do no not worship the same God as Christians and Jews. That is simply untrue.

Though it may be slightly off topic, I could not leave this alone. The Jewish and Christian God is the same; Islam has a very different god than the God of the Bible. Also, they are not all Abrahamic faiths, because Abraham believed in the LORD Jehovah, not Allah. Judaism is about 4,000 years old, starting with Abraham. The beginning of the Christian church was end of B.C., beginning of A.D., but the Bible records people who had faith in God even before the New Testament Church.

Islam as a religion started around A.D. 610, so no, it was not an Abrahamic religion. Did Mohamed borrow and distort from Hebrew and Christian religion, yes, so that is why you see things like Muslims keeping halal; no pork originated with Judaism! Ask any Muslim if they serve a god who can love; it is not possible. They can never be sure if they have done enough to get into paradise.

The Jewish religion shares with Christianity the Old Testament; but it ends there, in a way. Most Jewish people today do not believe in Jesus as the Messiah, they are still waiting.

Christianity does have roots in Judaism, but we have a faith that is sure, that we know that of ourselves, we cannot please God, but through Jesus Christ we can be saved if we believe in Him.

My intentions for this response, is that I felt that the info on this post and a couple others are not quite historically correct. Back to subject......

Parakeet · Jul 14, 2015

My own thoughts on this subject are like what has been effectively voiced by others in this thread. I am not going to push my beliefs on anyone and patient concerns come first. Even though I would never participate in a chant or prayer to another god other than my God, I know how to respect other people's beliefs.

One situation I had in a nursing home, was a resident who heard me singing while I worked, and asked me to sing more for her. That turned into me singing, praying, talking with her. It was all by her own request.

It does not help patient relations to blatantly state ones own opinion and disregard theirs. Like another poster said her.....tact, respect, and kindness.

Purple_roses · Jul 15, 2015

I grew up Southern Baptist, and even though I'm mostly agnostic now (my relationship with religion is complicated), I still love the old hymns.
I sang plenty for demented LOLs in the South because it helped keep them calm. I only remember the big ones, like Amazing Grace, these days, it's been so long. Although I do remember some of the blood of the lamb ones, 'cause they creep me out and give me nightmares.

We have the same bio! Raised baptist, became agnostic. And now I'm agnostic--maybe?? If people could hear my thoughts they would probably think I had a mental disorder. It's like an almost never ending debate about what's really going on. My mind never shuts up.

Just today I pulled my laptop out and played hymns for a client who kept having panic attacks. I don't like the hymns, but if it helps someone relax, I'll blare that stuff and put it on repeat.

And yes, the bloody hymns and the hellfire ones are burned into my brain. And Beulah Land for some reason.

BsumerRN · Jul 15, 2015

Though it may be slightly off topic, I could not leave this alone. The Jewish and Christian God is the same; Islam has a very different god than the God of the Bible. Also, they are not all Abrahamic faiths, because Abraham believed in the LORD Jehovah, not Allah. Judaism is about 4,000 years old, starting with Abraham. The beginning of the Christian church was end of B.C., beginning of A.D., but the Bible records people who had faith in God even before the New Testament Church.
Islam as a religion started around A.D. 610, so no, it was not an Abrahamic religion. Did Mohamed borrow and distort from Hebrew and Christian religion, yes, so that is why you see things like Muslims keeping halal; no pork originated with Judaism! Ask any Muslim if they serve a god who can love; it is not possible. They can never be sure if they have done enough to get into paradise.
The Jewish religion shares with Christianity the Old Testament; but it ends there, in a way. Most Jewish people today do not believe in Jesus as the Messiah, they are still waiting.
Christianity does have roots in Judaism, but we have a faith that is sure, that we know that of ourselves, we cannot please God, but through Jesus Christ we can be saved if we believe in Him.
My intentions for this response, is that I felt that the info on this post and a couple others are not quite historically correct. Back to subject......

Actually, religious scholars recognize that Islam is an Abrahamic religion. The shared roots of all three are undeniable, so much so that you can either not accept any of them or recognize a common thread of truth in each of them.Just because the paths of each faith are not identical does not mean there is only one path to God. Furthermore, Who are Christians to decide whether or not Muslims fall within the fold of the children of Abraham? Stop listening to your preachers and learn what Islam teaches. Maybe you could gain some insight. Also how can you decide what attributes of God are only available to Christians. It's ridiculous and quite frankly an ignorant argument full of fallacies. All of the attributes associated with God in Judaism and Christianity are also attributed to the same God in Islam... The most-forgiving, the most-loving, the most-beloved, the most-compassionate, the-most merciful, the most-just. I wonder what the motivation is for particular religious leaders to create commentary on Muslim theology without knowing their butt from a hole in the ground?

Ps. The not eating pork issue is a tradition of the Abrahamic faiths. Nowhere in the bible did Jesus eat pork. Christians abolished the law of Moses as they saw fit. Islam continued with the law of Moses. It's not exactly the same as just ripping off someone else's scripture.

Peace

MunoRN, RN · Jul 15, 2015

Though it may be slightly off topic, I could not leave this alone. The Jewish and Christian God is the same; Islam has a very different god than the God of the Bible. Also, they are not all Abrahamic faiths, because Abraham believed in the LORD Jehovah, not Allah. Judaism is about 4,000 years old, starting with Abraham. The beginning of the Christian church was end of B.C., beginning of A.D., but the Bible records people who had faith in God even before the New Testament Church.
Islam as a religion started around A.D. 610, so no, it was not an Abrahamic religion. Did Mohamed borrow and distort from Hebrew and Christian religion, yes, so that is why you see things like Muslims keeping halal; no pork originated with Judaism! Ask any Muslim if they serve a god who can love; it is not possible. They can never be sure if they have done enough to get into paradise.
The Jewish religion shares with Christianity the Old Testament; but it ends there, in a way. Most Jewish people today do not believe in Jesus as the Messiah, they are still waiting.
Christianity does have roots in Judaism, but we have a faith that is sure, that we know that of ourselves, we cannot please God, but through Jesus Christ we can be saved if we believe in Him.
My intentions for this response, is that I felt that the info on this post and a couple others are not quite historically correct. Back to subject......

Like Christianity, Islam worships the God first defined in the Old Testament, Islam just uses a different name for the same God. Islam also traces it's roots back to Abraham and his descendents, which is why it is correctly considered to be an Abrahamic religion.

Both Religions share the same basic scriptures and teachings; Jesus for instance is the second most revered prophet in Islam, and Jesus's disciples are also the primary prophets of Islam.

Ruby Vee, BSN · Jul 15, 2015

There is no policy that says I have to stop that conversation or say "No, I can't pray with you. But I can page the on-call chaplain who may or may not be a Christian (as were the ones who have asked me to pray). He/she can be here in half an hour. In the mean time, can I do something else to help with your distress? Some Ativan, some bad coffee?"

As far as I know, no one on the thread has been advocating or touting a policy that says you cannot pray with someone if they ask you to and you wish to do so. What the issue seems to be is "Do I HAVE to? What if it violates my personal beliefs or I feel uncomfortable doing so.?"

Ruby Vee, BSN · Jul 15, 2015

OK, OK. OP, you're right. Not your job. The benefit to the patient's well-being is supported scientifically. One tidbit: "An interesting bit of science attached to this ethnocentric and geocentric evolution of prayer comes out of Duke University Medical Center, where a study found that, within a group of 150 cardiac patients who received alternative post-operative therapy treatment, the sub-group who also received intercessory prayer (they were prayed for) had the highest success rate within the entire cohort."
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/enlightened-living/201007/the-science-psychology-and-metaphysics-prayer
"The Science, Psychology, and Metaphysics of Prayer." Religion, Spirituality, and Health: The Research and Clinical Implications
Many more studies support this. But if you believe your ethical principles trump a possible improvement of patient well-being, you must have some very good reasons that I have no way of comprehending. I like science, and I am an atheist, but I want to do what is in my power to (possibly) improve outcomes. In the end--nope, not your job. Carry on.
Shh... I don't pray either. I Kind of just support in silence. (Bonus: When a family member faints from emotional exhaustion, I'm there to help.)
I wonder if they'll fire me.

This is just nasty. No one should have to participate in prayer if it makes them uncomfortable or violates their own belief system. Call the chaplain or the nurse down the hall who can't WAIT to pray with someone. You've improved patient well being.

Our job is to assess the patient's needs and then hook them up with someone to help meet those needs. Our job is not to martyr ourselves on the cross of being all things to all people.