Is the RN--->BSN push a clever way to get older nurses out of the way

PMFB-RN, RN · Apr 14, 2014

Citations for this assertion, please. Note, opinions do not constitute data. All reputable studies (the ones from UPenn come to mind) are paragons of scientific and statistical rigor, and that includes sampling and sample sizes.

So UPenn does a study that finds that the product they sell, the BSN, results in better outcomes, or something like that. Even if the study is indeed a paragon of scientific rigor it is easy to understand people's skepticism.

I haven't seen that particular study. Do you have a link handy?

PMFB-RN, RN · Apr 14, 2014

There are so many great comments and much valuable insight on this thread. This is why I love AN!!! I was wondering why there are three programs (ADN, BSN, & Diploma) designed around preparing for the same NCLEX and licensure.

Actually I can think of at least six paths to NCLEX. ADN, Diploma, BSN, direct entry MSN, California's 30 unit option, and a couple of states, like West Virginia, who allow certain people (usually military trained LPNs) challenge the RN NCLEX.

brandy1017, ASN, RN · Apr 14, 2014

Then why don't docs only get a MDN if nurses do well with an ADN?
If these nurses are ALWAYS smarter than md's, then why aren't they md's?
And for the record, I'm not talking common sense that we know is lacking in BOTH professions, but educational background. A first year baby doc knows more than a first year ADN. I don't see them diagnosing and performing surgery in their first year out of nursing school.

Nurses are not always smarter than doctors, but I believe some are just as smart, but either thru personal choice or limited opportunity simply didn't have the chance or ability to go to med school. But the good news is if you are such a person and are interested in working more as a "doctor" you have the wonderful opportunity of becoming an NP and have the best of both worlds! Many NP's work for other doctors, but there is the opportunity to be independent professionals if you desire, including full prescriptive authority depending on what state you will practice in.

The NP program does allow nurses the chance to expand both their knowledge base and work role. I agree floor nurses no matter how much education they have are more working class than professional. Certainly we are treated as workers not professionals with all the rules of a factory worker such as punching a time clock and penalties for punching in even a minute late! Unfortunately if we were on salary we would be even poorer for it given all the involuntary overtime nurses put in just to finish their shift!

Ruby Vee, BSN · Apr 14, 2014

....and all subsequent generations will drop dead waiting around for a full time job with benefits.

Ouch!

martymoose, BSN, RN · Apr 14, 2014

....and all subsequent generations will drop dead waiting around for a full time job with benefits.

Ahhhh so you are saying us old farts should drop dead so you can get a job.Boy that's professional.

nurseprnRN, BSN, RN · Apr 14, 2014

So UPenn does a study that finds that the product they sell, the BSN, results in better outcomes, or something like that. Even if the study is indeed a paragon of scientific rigor it is easy to understand people's skepticism.
I haven't seen that particular study. Do you have a link handy?

It's not just one, and it's not just UPenn.

JAMA 288:16 Aiken et al., 2002

JAMA. Sep 24, 2003; 290(12): 1617–1623. Aiken et al., 2003

The Lancet, Early Online Publication, 26 February 2014 Aiken et al. Hospital nurse staffing and the proportion of nurses with bachelor’s level education are associated with significantly fewer deaths after common surgical procedures, according to a new international study in which researchers at Karolinska Institutet participated. The study of close to a half million surgical patients and over 26 000 nurses in 9 European countries is published in the scientific journal The Lancet.

AHRQ State-Mandated Nurse Staffing Levels Alleviate Workloads, Leading to Lower Patient Mortality and Higher Nurse Satisfaction | AHRQ Innovations Exchange 2012

elkpark · Apr 14, 2014

....and all subsequent generations will drop dead waiting around for a full time job with benefits.

I apologize for complicating your life by being healthy, active, and planning to continue working as long as possible, instead of dying young.

Nola009 · Apr 14, 2014

Ahhhh so you are saying us old farts should drop dead so you can get a job.Boy that's professional.

Negative outlook, hmm? Please dont twist my words. What I said is right there in black and white. If you choose to turn your attention and energy to one thing on this thread that can possibly be misconstrued into something bad,its your problem. Not mine. I, as a new nurse spoke of wanting to collaborate with other nurses who have more experience and wisdom. As a young person entering into a challenging profession, do you have any advice? Thanks in advance!

Nola009 · Apr 14, 2014

Ahhhh so you are saying us old farts should drop dead so you can get a job.Boy that's professional.

And just to clarify, I dont want (nor did I say) anyone to "drop dead" just so that we younger nurses can get jobs. I would LOVE to be mentored by an older, seasoned nurse. Sure many of my coworkers feel the same. The thing that I find unfortunate is that I am almost completely surrounded by other newbies at my jobs and we are short-staffed. There's room for more nurses, (we could BOTH have jobs) but costs have been cut to the point where my generation of nurses get a 3-day orientation, not a month like whst you probably had when starting out!

Nola009 · Apr 14, 2014

I apologize for complicating your life by being healthy, active, and planning to continue working as long as possible, instead of dying young.

No need to apologize because I never said that you or anyone should die young! Maybe you should read the entire thread instead of honing in on a comment to another comment. Care to quote that one too, just to be FAIR ?

Esme12, ASN, BSN, RN · Apr 14, 2014

And just to clarify, I dont want (nor did I say) anyone to "drop dead" just so that we younger nurses can get jobs. I would LOVE to be mentored by an older, seasoned nurse. Sure many of my coworkers feel the same. The thing that I find unfortunate is that I am almost completely surrounded by other newbies at my jobs and we are short-staffed. There's room for more nurses, (we could BOTH have jobs) but costs have been cut to the point where my generation of nurses get a 3-day orientation, not a month like whst you probably had when starting out!

They let many of us go...we were to expensive. It is easier to hire 2 new grads for the price of me. We are argumentative and do not put up with what they are trying to do to the staffing right now.

I feel for the new grads. But remember without a BSN we are not quality and therefore have nothing to offer. (I don't believe that for a moment just proving a point).

You do realize that we didn't cause this nursing surplus. We didn't cut orientation programs. We didn't base a nursing shortage on numbers that were inflated based on a staffing bill that NEVER passed and we certainly didn't orchestrate the economic meltdown.

Nola009 · Apr 14, 2014

They let many of us go...we were to expensive. It is easier to hire 2 new grads for the price of me. We are argumentative and do not put up with what they are trying to do to the staffing right now.
I feel for the new grads. But remember without a BSN we are not quality and therefore have nothing to offer. (I don't believe that for a moment just proving a point)

And that is sad. It's sad for you, as a valuable seasoned nurse, me as a newbie who wants to learn and become good at what I'm doing, and the patients! I never set out to take anyone's job --- where I work, you (and many others) would probably NOT like, anyways. Thank you for your comment. I think you understand what I was trying to say.