Is the RN--->BSN push a clever way to get older nurses out of the way

Nursing Students ADN/BSN

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As in certain "Baby Boomers" who wont retire? Wont we NEED a faster RN producing mechanism (hello again, ADN programs!) in order to provide enough nurses to care for this huge group of people due to retire soon?? Just wondering...

Specializes in Certified Med/Surg tele, and other stuff.
I have never noticed the average physicians as being smarter than the average nurse.

Then why don't docs only get a MDN if nurses do well with an ADN? ;)

If these nurses are ALWAYS smarter than md's, then why aren't they md's?

And for the record, I'm not talking common sense that we know is lacking in BOTH professions, but educational background. A first year baby doc knows more than a first year ADN. I don't see them diagnosing and performing surgery in their first year out of nursing school.

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I am not sure why you quoted me. I didn't make the statement. I think you misunderstand my post.

I am appalled that this sort of biased classism exists amongst educated professionals.

I'm an ADN grad who has a BSN. I don't consider myself better than anyone else

Sorry, I was just making a general comment. I didnt misunderstand you. It was late and I was reading through the comments on my (mini) tablet. I was going to fix my post this AM.

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Specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma.

no worries! I'm easy! ;) I just wanted to be sure it was understood...:)

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I am hoping to move out to usa next year!! I think I will be applying for visa as a spouse will get my academic transcript evaluated here and try and sit (if I am allowed) the NCLEX exam here. Things seems so hard to get things sorted from uk!! We just want to get things moving and hubby wants to go home And me and the kids (13/17) want to start our new lives :) xxxx

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Then why don't docs only get a MDN if nurses do well with an ADN? ;)

If these nurses are ALWAYS smarter than md's, then why aren't they md's?

And for the record, I'm not talking common sense that we know is lacking in BOTH professions, but educational background. A first year baby doc knows more than a first year ADN. I don't see them diagnosing and performing surgery in their first year out of nursing school.

I have to say in A&E we get continual rotation of new docs (F1's and 2's) they go see a patient or a child then come up to me and say "what do you think I should give them" I am like "I don't know your the doctor" ;) I am sure they must be scared just like we are straight out of university or as soon as we have done our IV training and let loose. However if they think about it they know the answer or they ask advice like we do :)

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Specializes in Certified Med/Surg tele, and other stuff.
Bingo. The chief nursing officer at my workplace pretends to be an LPN advocate, but he makes comments during meetings that have horribly offended them, although I should mention I do not think he is purposely trying to offend. I listed some examples:

* "Don't disrespect the LPNs. They probably couldn't go to college."

* "We're thinking about implementing team nursing, with teams made up of one nurse, one LPN and one CNA."

The first statement reveals his true feelings that LPNs have not been to college (when most have) and the second statement hints that he believes RNs are the only real nurses (notice he doesn't refer to LPNs as nurses in the last statement).

OMG, I remember hearing those comments as an LPN. It was one reason I furthered my education and earned my ADN. I become tired of being beaten down.

Fast forward to my past manager who used to say things about ADN nurses.

1) Well, the nurses don't understand this concept because most of my staff is ADN

2) Nurses are the least educated in the health care profession

3) I want you to meet Tokmom a day shift nurse and Suzie Q BSN.

4) Written emails coming to staff: I want to thank Suzie Q, BSN and tokmom for their .....

Soooo yeah... got real tired of *that* and now I'm in my last few weeks of my BSN.

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Specializes in Certified Med/Surg tele, and other stuff.
I have to say in A&E we get continual rotation of new docs (F1's and 2's) they go see a patient or a child then come up to me and say "what do you think I should give them" I am like "I don't know your the doctor" ;) I am sure they must be scared just like we are straight out of university or as soon as we have done our IV training and let loose. However if they think about it they know the answer or they ask advice like we do :)

Totally agree with you and that is what you call collaboration which is a good thing. It's teamwork where two minds, who have their own educational background and agenda, talk about what is best for the patient.

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Specializes in ICU.

Wow, Tokmom. I must say I have never heard comments like that in any of my work environments. Any nurse manager who thinks an LPN or ADN cannot understand things is more ignorant than she thinks "they" are. I know plenty of LPN's and ADN's and diploma nurses who are bright, intelligent, and had previous lives before nursing; meaning, previous degrees and jobs. I have two friends who obtained an LPN so they could function in their "doctor husbands" offices. They had prior degrees, but wanted to work in their husband's practice. No one would think they are stupid because they only have an LPN. Another poster made the comment (don't remember where) that nurses don't leave jobs; they leave bad managers.

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The "compelling evidence" based on analysis of aggregate data is hardly compelling to some intelligent nurses on AN. Several nurses on AN have refuted the design and methodology of various studies, from the sampling procedures and populations studied through the actual methods used in the studies including statistical analysis, conclusions, and generalizability of the findings.

Citations for this assertion, please. Note, opinions do not constitute data. All reputable studies (the ones from UPenn come to mind) are paragons of scientific and statistical rigor, and that includes sampling and sample sizes.

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Hello everyone. I am new here. Everything I have read suggests the push for higher degrees is due to better patient outcomes. In my area, the tech school ADN graduates have a 95% job placement rate and that was from a very recent study, so the need for ADNs is still there.

No, that doesn't generalize to a need for ANS. All this indicates is that in your area tech and ADN grads are getting work. I just finished reading the Sunday paper in my metro area and there are no nursing ads at all except two that say, "BSN required/preferred."

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Monro, you are usually spot on but I disagree with your argument. If everyone at McDonalds was REQUIRED to have a doctorate, then no one would apply for the job (or could apply)and to get workers, they would have to pay more. Look how physical therapists have kept their numbers low and earning power high by limiting their numbers. Nursing, on the other hand, has dumbed the BSN down so much that it's practically meaningless. I worked with an ADN working on her BSN and asked how she was enjoying her public health rotation. Her "rotation" consisted of speaking at a barber shop about the perils of hypertension. There is no substitute for 13 weeks of knocking on patients' doors and appreciating what the home situation can do to a discharge plan. That's part of getting the bigger picture that a BSN should be providing.

I went to a primary BSN program and that's exactly what we did-- the going into people's homes for 13 weeks part. Not all BSN programs are crummy, not by a long shot.

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Then why don't docs only get a MDN if nurses do well with an ADN? ;)

If these nurses are ALWAYS smarter than md's, then why aren't they md's?

And for the record, I'm not talking common sense that we know is lacking in BOTH professions, but educational background. A first year baby doc knows more than a first year ADN. I don't see them diagnosing and performing surgery in their first year out of nursing school.

No, a first year doc knows what s/he knows, and the first year nurse knows what s/he knows. I don't see R1s (what we used to call interns) who know half what a nurse knows about families, patient care, working in a team environment, or anything at all about nursing (when we are supposed to know a lot about medicine). Your argument only holds water if you automatically assume that what they learn in med school is somehow inherently more important or more valuable than what we learn in nursing school. Believe me, it's not.

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