Is the RN--->BSN push a clever way to get older nurses out of the way

Nursing Students ADN/BSN

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As in certain "Baby Boomers" who wont retire? Wont we NEED a faster RN producing mechanism (hello again, ADN programs!) in order to provide enough nurses to care for this huge group of people due to retire soon?? Just wondering...

Specializes in Case mgmt., rehab, (CRRN), LTC & psych.
I very much agree that there is that perception among nursing mangaers and administration in many cases. Not saying it's true, but that many people think it is.
Bingo. The chief nursing officer at my workplace pretends to be an LPN advocate, but he makes comments during meetings that have horribly offended them, although I should mention I do not think he is purposely trying to offend. I listed some examples:

• "Don't disrespect the LPNs. They probably couldn't go to college."

• "We're thinking about implementing team nursing, with teams made up of one nurse, one LPN and one CNA."

The first statement reveals his true feelings that LPNs have not been to college (when most have) and the second statement hints that he believes RNs are the only real nurses (notice he doesn't refer to LPNs as nurses in the last statement).

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Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
Bingo. The chief nursing officer at my workplace pretends to be an LPN advocate, but he makes comments during meetings that have horribly offended them, although I should mention I do not think he is purposely trying to offend. I listed some examples:

• "Don't disrespect the LPNs. They probably couldn't go to college."

• "We're thinking about implementing team nursing, with teams made up of one nurse, one LPN and one CNA."

The first statement reveals his true feelings that LPNs have not been to college (when most have) and the second statement hints that he believes RNs are the only real nurses (notice he doesn't refer to LPNs as nurses in the last statement).

That he didn't refer to LPNs as nurses in the second statement jumped right out at me. I work in a hospital that hires many LPNS for their clinics and for the attached rehab and long term care units. The irony of his first statement is that the majority of the LPNs we have hired in the last 5-6 years DID go to college and have bachelors degrees in other fields. When they found themselves burdened by large student loan payments and no job prosepcts in their fields many did the local communuity college's 11 month LPN program (VERY inexpensive, around $2,500) in order to get a job that has benifits and pays something at least.

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I am not even sure how to respond to the statements that ADN nurses are less professional and from a "lower" working class and in the obtaining a BSN somehow refines ones "class".

I am rendered speechless and that is hard to do.

I'm not trying to sound rude here, but aren't all nurses considered "working class"? As TheCommuter (and many others) pointed out, it's really interesting to think that HR Managers feel as though BSNs have that certain "polish" they like to see while ADNs don't. My "working-class" (dad is a poor musician turned RRT and mom is a groupie turned Medical Records coder) "Baby boomer" age parents took my wealthy Libertarian uncle's advice and didn't help any of their children with saving for or applying to college --- not one bit (how convenient, huh). We were told to simply get a job. My dad said that working in health care isn't all it's cracked up to be anyways, and that a factory job would do just as well. I didn't last long working at factories because the work seemed too monotonous for me. After supporting myself on a CNA salary for a long time, I became able to attend and graduate from a reputable ADN program. Surely there are 100s of other scenarios which could lead someone to stray from the "traditional" Bachelor's Degree immediately following high school path. Some of it is circumstance, not "classiness". (BTW, why are employers faulting people who chose a more affordable route to their RN in this bad economy anyways?!) I am clean-cut, kind, work hard, and keep it classy, lol. Once I complete my ADN RN to BSN, is some snotty HR paper pusher going to say it's not good enough because I didn't go for the BSN straight out of high school, presuming that's what any good suburban kid would have done --- ?!

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Some random thoughts:

- One way or another, the educational paths for LPN and RN need to be stadardized. No more multiple degrees leading to the same licensure. This will mean phasing out of the ADN and diploma degrees. I am ambivalent about this. I'm not convinced BSN programs produce better RNs, but I am convinced a "BSN only" educational pathway is the future.

- Obtaining a university degree is not something everyone has equal opportunnity to do. The cost difference between attending a community college and a university is vast. Vast, vast, vast. Many kids in poor neighborhoods literally struggle to survive high school. Getting a scholarship while attending a failing school surrounded by drugs and violence is not a realistic goal for even the smartest kid with the most can-do "gumption". For these kids, community college is a barely affordable option. Universities are out of the question. Phasing out the ADN will close the door to certain segments of the population....

-.... which, as others have pointed out, is exactly what many want, whether they'll admit it or not. Many RNs who've obtained their BSN simply do not want to be associated with people who've attended community college.

-I am not convinced by studies that allegedly prove ADN nurses have a higher pt motality rate than BSN nurses. First, the people conducting such research are themselves deeply embedded in academia. Only on Bizzaro-Earth will such people value an ADN program over a BSN. The outcomes of these studies are affected by this bias.

-Also, hospitals that have large percentages of BSN are overwhelmingly large metropolitan hospitals. Hospitals that have very low BSN percentages tend to be smaller, more rual. Are these studies REALLY comparing nurses? Or are they rather comparing big city vs rural/smaller town hospitals? I challenge someone to find a study that compares nurses directly against other nurses in a variety of settings, rather than studies that compare one hospital that has more BSNs vs one that has fewer. Perhaps a study that randomly picks 1000 new grad BSN RNs and 1000 randon new ADN grads and gauges their pt outcomes one year later. I'd be VERY interested in THOSE results.

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Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
Some random thoughts:

- One way or another, the educational paths for LPN and RN need to be stadardized. No more multiple degrees leading to the same licensure. This will mean phasing out of the ADN and diploma degrees. I am ambivalent about this. I'm not convinced BSN programs produce better RNs, but I am convinced a "BSN only" educational pathway is the future.

While we are getting rid of the ADN, diploma and other paths to RN we will also need to do away with the direct entry MSN programs. If we don't we will be having the same argument in a few years but it will be BSN vs MSN.

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Specializes in Oncology; medical specialty website.
Well, I am glad I look "polished" while I clean stool, dress decubitus, strip the bed and change the linens, then proceed to do it all over again when the GI bleeder vomits everywhere. I would sure hate to not have that air of BSN sophistication about me; someone might think I am low-class.

​You'll definitely have an air of something when that GI bleeder pukes on you! ;)

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Specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma.
I'm not trying to sound rude here, but aren't all nurses considered "working class"? As TheCommuter (and many others) pointed out, it's really interesting to think that HR Managers feel as though BSNs have that certain "polish" they like to see while ADNs don't. My "working-class" (dad is a poor musician turned RRT and mom is a groupie turned Medical Records coder) "Baby boomer" age parents took my wealthy Libertarian uncle's advice and didn't help any of their children with saving for or applying to college --- not one bit (how convenient, huh). We were told to simply get a job. My dad said that working in health care isn't all it's cracked up to be anyways, and that a factory job would do just as well. I didn't last long working at factories because the work seemed too monotonous for me. After supporting myself on a CNA salary for a long time, I became able to attend and graduate from a reputable ADN program. Surely there are 100s of other scenarios which could lead someone to stray from the "traditional" Bachelor's Degree immediately following high school path. Some of it is circumstance, not "classiness". (BTW, why are employers faulting people who chose a more affordable route to their RN in this bad economy anyways?!) I am clean-cut, kind, work hard, and keep it classy, lol. Once I complete my ADN RN to BSN, is some snotty HR paper pusher going to say it's not good enough because I didn't go for the BSN straight out of high school, presuming that's what any good suburban kid would have done --- ?!
I am not sure why you quoted me. I didn't make the statement. I think you misunderstand my post.

I am appalled that this sort of biased classism exists amongst educated professionals.

I'm an ADN grad who has a BSN. I don't consider myself better than anyone else

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Huh? Can't even imagine any logic behind this argument.

Nope - the 'push' for BSN in acute care is being driven by compelling evidence - higher nurse education levels produce better patient outcomes. Plain and simple. I know, I know - we all know a jillion non-BSN nurses who are just the bee's knees and waaaay better than those snotty BSN grads. But the evidence is based on analysis of aggregate data - not the results of individual nurses.

Although I agree with lots you are saying I saddens me as a oldie (44) newly (not snotty) BSN graduate nurse (hca for number of years) I also know a jillion of non BSN nurses that's aren't better and to be honest would be scared if they were looking after my family member and boy they don't like change and have become dare I say complacent. However I am sure that is the same with either degree or non degree there is always good and bad but I Just wanted to say not all of us are snotty and not all non degree nurses are better. :) xxx

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Specializes in Case mgmt., rehab, (CRRN), LTC & psych.
I am sure that is the same with either degree or non degree there is always good and bad but I Just wanted to say not all of us are snotty and not all non degree nurses are better.
Welcome to Allnurses.com!

Are you aware that diploma-educated RNs and certificate-educated LPNs are the only non-degree nurses in the workforce? RNs with ASNs have earned degrees (it's called the associate's of science in nursing for a reason).

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Specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma.
Although I agree with lots you are saying I saddens me as a oldie (44) newly (not snotty) BSN graduate nurse (hca for number of years) I also know a jillion of non BSN nurses that's aren't better and to be honest would be scared if they were looking after my family member and boy they don't like change and have become dare I say complacent. However I am sure that is the same with either degree or non degree there is always good and bad but I Just wanted to say not all of us are snotty and not all non degree nurses are better. :) xxx
That is the point.

I have met many over educated idiots in my time. I have worked with some complete and utter donkeys that can't fight their way out of a paper bag.

I am an ADN grad with 35 years critical care/emergency experience...I am highly skilled and educated although not highly degreed. My BSN added NOTHING to my clinical practice.

If your family member is very critically ill I am an excellent choice to have at the bedside.

But to have leaders in the field making these comments with these unsubstantiated biases is just wrong.

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Welcome to Allnurses.com!

Are you aware that diploma-educated RNs and certificate-educated LPNs are the only non-degree nurses in the workforce? RNs with ASNs have earned degrees (it's called the associate's of science in nursing for a reason).

Sorry I am confused what are you trying to say?? Apologies it's my birthday and a little blonde! Lol I was just saying you don't need to have a degree to be snotty or to be a good nurse there are good and bad nurses with and without a degree. ;) xx ps thank your for the warm welcome :)

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That is the point.

I have met many over educated idiots in my time. I have worked with some complete and utter donkeys that can't fight their way out of a paper bag.

I am an ADN grad with 35 years critical care/emergency experience...I am highly skilled and educated although not highly degreed. My BSN added NOTHING to my clinical practice.

If your family member is very critically ill I am an excellent choice to have at the bedside.

But to have leaders in the field making these comments with these unsubstantiated biases is just wrong.

Oohhh wanted to say I have also met some nurses that I do wonder how they passed the course years ago!! Hahhaha I like that but pray I will never need your services for myself or a family member although I would be happy to have you!! :) sorry for confusion :(

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