Today in my A&P1 class the students managed to convince our professor that our last exam of the semester should be a take home exam! My professor said that she wont change the format, so it will still be multiple choice and true/false questions. I feel like this will make it so easy for people to just compare answers and cheat and be able to get an easy A without studying or coming to class.
The crazy thing is that it was going to be a regular in class exam, but my teacher is a bit of a push-over and the class actually convinced her to make it take home. I feel like this is unfair for students like myself, who put in effort and get excellent grades on our own.
My biggest problem with this is that the nursing program at our school only looks at our first semster marks for addmissions. (They wont have semester 2 marks in on time). So if it's so easy to get an A in A&P1, there is nothing to distinguish the students by, and I'm worried students might be admitted by lottery! Plus making the class so easy is not a good way to prepare student for nursing school.
Should I tell my professor that I don't think this is fair? I was thinking of suggesting that we have an "open book" exam as a compromise, since the students seem to think that the regular exams are sooo hard. At least that way people can't cheat off each other. Or am I being really obnoxious and should I just let this go?
The NCLEX is a test everyone has to take by themselves, it's like the final judgement...no matter how much a person may have slacked or cheated on they way, when they get there it's just them and the judge and there's no fooling the judge.
Chicagoing, I do not believe I denied my FACT of the matter of judging her. If you were reading my post thoroughly, I said it TWICE that I did judge her. I did not deny that but I'm telling you, you're obviously judging me because when you told me that I had to "look at myself" on why I judge her. I think no I am pretty sure you are implying that I am insecure or something.
Honestly, though I don't see why you can't comprehend the simple fact that you are never going to change how I feel about her trying to change the way the test is being distributed.
Moreover, I did NOT imply that there was something wrong with working at "higher level" than others. I just implied that if that confidence gets to the point where its selfish, maybe she is a little too insecure and should calm down. She is not the only student in the class and she is not the professor. If she is doing well, she will do well in the take home exam and possibly get her average to the point where she is having the best grade of her class.
And if she is getting a good grade, why the heck would she want it to be harder for the people who aren't. Just because someone else gets an A on something when they normally don't, doesn't make her grade lose value.
The mere fact that she can't cope with someone having the possibly of getting the same grade she always does is insecurity and selfish.
" If were were all operating at the same levels, there would be no competition whatsoever for grades, and this post would be moot."
Yeah, but the thing is, the class ISN'T operating at the same level because its a one time take home exam. Its not like this one exam is going to all of a sudden bring equilibrium and the whole class will suddenly get A averages.
Honestly, it is sleazy and if you can't prove otherwise then you're probably not the best person to judge.
Nonetheless, your defensive comments are really annoying. I think you're trying to "tell me off" but the way I see it. You are just as insecure as the OP and if you are, you need to relax because you're being high strung over a comment that someone made over the internet.
OP - I am glad you spoke with your professor. In all honestly, when a professor drops lowest tests, gives loads of extra credit points and gives take home/open book tests, they are doing a disservice to the students.
Sure, more people might earn a good or even just a passing grade in a class that does this. However, A&P is not a throw away class. You will actually use the knowledge you learned in A&P in nursing school. It makes nursing school much more difficult if you don't understand the anatomy and physiology. A good/decent grade won't help you in nursing school. A good knowledge of A&P will.
Our biology department did not allow extra credit, take home exams, dropped exams, open book exams or rounding of percentages. This was across the board, so everyone who took Anatomy, Physiology, Patho and Micro had a somewhat similar experience. Sure there were easier and more difficult professors. But, by the time everyone gets to the nursing courses, they should have a pretty good handle on A&P. You have to really learn it at some point - better in A&P than during Assessment.
Chicagoing, I do not believe I denied my FACT of the matter of judging her. If you were reading my post thoroughly, I said it TWICE that I did judge her. I did not deny that but I'm telling you, you're obviously judging me because when you told me that I had to "look at myself" on why I judge her. I think no I am pretty sure you are implying that I am insecure or something.
Honestly, though I don't see why you can't comprehend the simple fact that you are never going to change how I feel about her trying to change the way the test is being distributed.
Moreover, I did NOT imply that there was something wrong with working at "higher level" than others. I just implied that if that confidence gets to the point where its selfish, maybe she is a little too insecure and should calm down. She is not the only student in the class and she is not the professor. If she is doing well, she will do well in the take home exam and possibly get her average to the point where she is having the best grade of her class.
And if she is getting a good grade, why the heck would she want it to be harder for the people who aren't. Just because someone else gets an A on something when they normally don't, doesn't make her grade lose value.
The mere fact that she can't cope with someone having the possibly of getting the same grade she always does is insecurity and selfish.
" If were were all operating at the same levels, there would be no competition whatsoever for grades, and this post would be moot."
Yeah, but the thing is, the class ISN'T operating at the same level because its a one time take home exam. Its not like this one exam is going to all of a sudden bring equilibrium and the whole class will suddenly get A averages.
Honestly, it is sleazy and if you can't prove otherwise then you're probably not the best person to judge.
Nonetheless, your defensive comments are really annoying. I think you're trying to "tell me off" but the way I see it. You are just as insecure as the OP and if you are, you need to relax because you're being high strung over a comment that someone made over the internet.
You have a good point there (last sentence). Your post gave me a chuckle. Thanks
haha...you guys are so very funny.....a wise ol woman prof once told our WHOLE class that getting A's does not make the nurse....one could be a solid C student, who studies their butt off and has more compassion and COMMON SENSE and knows how to ask questions and knows where to look these questions up,
now she would love to have everyone pulling A and B,but she said she would rather have that C nurse over an A booksmart nurse who is not compassionate and does not have the sense to ask for help cause "she thinks she knows it all"...oh she said more...but i think you get my drift......i am guessing there where some know it alls in the class who she was trying to bring down a notch or 2.......
me...i LOVE my B's.....love even more when i get A's.....try harder when i get C's and for the most part...mind my own business...
A professor who allows themselves to be swayed by students to make class requirements easier (when the requirements are already easy and reasonable) is indeed an idiot. Some students are generally lazy and don't want to put in the work to learn and do well, it's all about partying even when they are in class. What a waste of an education. It ruins the experience for those of us who work hard to get A's and master the subject matter. A take home that was originally designed to be an in-class test is an open door for the scrupulous to take advantage and cheat, and anyone who denies that is an idiot too. It's inevitable. The OP is right, and when it comes down to it, the A on my transcript won't look any different from the cheater's A in front of a nursing school's admissions committee. Sounds to me like talking to the professor is a waste of time, the take home will happen regardless. But as someone else said, A&P 1 is not the only class taken into account in admissions and I highly doubt this fiasco will happen similarly in your other classes. If it DOES, however - I would question the kind of SCHOOL you're attending! Should they really be accredited in the first place? I'm babbling now, but you get how I am thinking.
I hope you end up getting into nursing school on your hard earned merits and that karma bites the asses of the manipulators by staying out of your way!
OP - I am glad you spoke with your professor. In all honestly, when a professor drops lowest tests, gives loads of extra credit points and gives take home/open book tests, they are doing a disservice to the students.
Maybe doing ALL of these things is a little much.. but I think there are more ways of teaching than just the lecture-student cram-exam method. A take home test that is designed to make the students look at and evaluate ALL the material being covered can be quite effective.. (IMO)
There are instructors that don't believe in "curves", some that don't believe in bonus questions or extra credit, and some that won't do ANYTHING to allow a struggling student make up some ground.
Dropping lowest grade- I think this is fair because it allows for even the brightest student to have a bad day and it wont hurt their overall grade. Sometimes people have stuff going on in their lives around the time of a test and can't study or are too stressed to do well. I think this is a nice FAIR way to say to all your students, "I get it, things happen, a bad week won't kill your GPA in this class".
Extra credit- I think this is a good way for students who may not necessarily flourish in the normal class room/ test taking environment to earn points for working hard in other ways. Some people study, study study, and simply aren't good test takers. Giving extra credit takes this into account and allows these students to put there hard work into something they can do well.
Curves- If the class average on exams is ridiculously low- something is wrong with the teacher, test or both. I curve, imo, is the only way to remedy this situation.
Anyway- This is my opinion, not all classes are going to be the same and not all students learn the same.
One of my professors had a practical and smart approach to extra credit. In order to earn back 50% you had to do the following:
1) Write out the question and explain why the right answer is right and the wrong answers (multiple choice) is wrong.
2) Make up two test worthy questions on the same material. For each question write why the right answer is right and the wrong answer is wrong.
The 50% back worked like this. Say you made 60% on the exam: You get the opportunity to earn back half of what you missed. So since I missed 40 points on the exam I had the chance to earn back 20 points to my grade. That would bring my overall test grade to 80%.
My teacher was tough, she graded the extra credit like it was a test and I never got the full 50% back, I always got 49%, go figure.
This method for extra credit was effective because it was on only allowed for the exams, not the quizzes. She stressed to us that doing this for every quiz question we get wrong will ensure that we get the similar questions right on our exams. She was right, I knew WHY the answers were right and wrong, versus just knowing which answer is right or wrong. Also it was SOOOOOO much work, I am talking a good 3 hours of work if you did bad on an exam, that most of the people in my class did not do it. Therefore the slackers did not flourish while the hard workers who deserved the extra help EARNED it!
I will use this as a tool for the rest of my schooling, it really is effective and I highly recommend it. But the teacher has to grant you access to the test questions...... Which brings about a whole new debate. Either way this system worked!
Artificially inflating grades is an injustice to the students.
I fully agree that many students may not be natural test takers. However, colleges have ways of helping them that does not include randomly increasing people's grades. If you have a true problem with test taking, go see your physicial or the student services folks (whatever they are called) at your school. Accomodations can and are made all the time. Untimed tests, oral exams, test readers, test scribes, quiet places for test taking and many other things are done routinely for people with actual test taking problems to help their work reflect their knowledge.
In addition, professors very often include research papers, homework, group work, projects and other means of evaluating knowledge. These items are included in the overall points alloted for courses and can help raise the grade of a person who does not test well without artificially inflating grades for one person or even a whole class. These are ways to help without artificially inflating grades.
Inflating grades in pre-reqs is really not good for the students. Take a look at the nursing student forums. Nursing schools (at least any I know of) do not allow for curves, extra credit or even rounding grades. In addition, most have a much higher standard for a passing grade. My nursing school requires a minimum of a 76 to pass a class and a 93 is the minimum A. If you receive a 75.9, you fail. There is no rounding to a 76. A 92.9 is a B, not an A. Students who are artificially passed through pre-reqs often find themselves in trouble in nursing school. It is a disservice to put them into that position. 76 is fairly common as a minimum passing grade. But, I've seen required minimums of 80 and more.
GPA is important to getting into school. It is often the only means that a school has of judging whether someone has enough knowledge to succeed in nursing school.
Dropping the lowest grade because stuff happens doesn't make any sense to me. These science classes are not speech or comparative religion - they are necessary for the nursing program. Students need to learn the material. Dropping a grade that then gives them the impression that they didn't need that section of material. If they didn't learn XYZ system in A&P, nursing school is going to be more difficult.
If you understand the material, but cannot spit it back out in a classroom test situation, get help -- help from your school, help from your physician, etc.
But, don't dumb down the classes in order to inflate grades. Unfortunately, a lot of those students will not make it through nursing school.
I understand your frustration, but what if you were the student who busted your but, and only get mediocre grades. It doesn't mean you don't try hard and are a slacker. Grades don't mean everything. I for example, but my bottom to get good grades and only get B's. I think because the test is M/C it is worse then short/long answer. Short and long answer you can bs and generally get a decent grade but M/C it is right or wrong. I think students tend to take advantage of take home stuff, and I have seen no difference in grades form take home stuff versus in class stuff. If they did poorly on the in class exams, they may have done so due to the 'slacking off' or perhaps poor comprehension of what the question is asking. If one cannot decide what the question is asking then taking it home wont help even if one can collaborate with ones colleagues. It is my opinion that you shouldn't worry, grades are not everything. Perhaps because you busted your butt off in the class you can get a recommendation from your prof for the nursing program.
There are important experiences and things that happen in life, and this is not one that should be giving you grey hair.
Again, I understand your frustration, but if after talking to your prof nothing changes, then kick butt on the exam, and prove to her that you are better. Who knows if it will help, but perseverance will get you everywhere.
Good Luck!!
Also remember, regardless of our opinions, yours is the only one that matters.
Anoetos, BSN, RN
738 Posts
The NCLEX is a test everyone has to take by themselves, it's like the final judgement...no matter how much a person may have slacked or cheated on they way, when they get there it's just them and the judge and there's no fooling the judge.