Today in my A&P1 class the students managed to convince our professor that our last exam of the semester should be a take home exam! My professor said that she wont change the format, so it will still be multiple choice and true/false questions. I feel like this will make it so easy for people to just compare answers and cheat and be able to get an easy A without studying or coming to class.
The crazy thing is that it was going to be a regular in class exam, but my teacher is a bit of a push-over and the class actually convinced her to make it take home. I feel like this is unfair for students like myself, who put in effort and get excellent grades on our own.
My biggest problem with this is that the nursing program at our school only looks at our first semster marks for addmissions. (They wont have semester 2 marks in on time). So if it's so easy to get an A in A&P1, there is nothing to distinguish the students by, and I'm worried students might be admitted by lottery! Plus making the class so easy is not a good way to prepare student for nursing school.
Should I tell my professor that I don't think this is fair? I was thinking of suggesting that we have an "open book" exam as a compromise, since the students seem to think that the regular exams are sooo hard. At least that way people can't cheat off each other. Or am I being really obnoxious and should I just let this go?
Don't worry about it, but at the same time, don't let the weakness of your colleagues or even your professor alter the way you study or prepare. As has been mentioned, a good grade in A&P is not the only criterion for getting into NS.
Remember also that the NCLEX is not a take home or group test, those who are prepared and who have done the work are the ones who will pass it and that is, at the moment, the only criterion worth worrying about (after getting into the school in the first place, of course). A good nursing school has a way of weeding out the lazies I think.
I think you now attending an easy school is cheating. Ok, so thats a bit over the top, but what I mean by it is that there are so many students not in your one class that are going to be applying to Nursing School. You should never view your current class as the competition. I imagine that the students at your former school could argue that your new school has it too easy and that they have no advantage in going to their school when your school gives A's so freely.
And like the others said, nursing schools look at alot more than 1 A&P class, and luckily for you alot more than A&P and Chem too.
Well the school I'm attending is the community college where I plan to apply for nursing. So at least most of the students applying for nursing will have taken the pre-requisites at the same school. I don't know if the whole school is "easy". My former school was a highly ranked university, and this is community college, so maybe that's why there is a difference. I had never heard of extra credit, dropping the lowest exam grade, and so on until I came to this school. But from what I understand, it is similar at other community colleges? I hope that admissions takes the difficulty of the school into consideration when admitting students into the nursing program.
By the way, everyone is saying that nursing schools look at much more than A&P1 and chem. Well, at my school they don't even look at second semester grades (because they aren't in on time), so that eliminates A&P2, microbiology, and other classes for many students who are doing their pre-requisites in one year. And they ONLY look at grades. There's no interview or entrance exam. So, it is really important to get good grades this semester, and I don't want it to be so easy for everybody to get an A.
If they only look at grades and everyone gets an A...then I guess they will be forced to look at other stuff as well...like an interview or midterm grades for second semester.
I wouldnt worry about one test...you have no idea what the other students grades are in other classes...maybe they get an A here but a C somewhere else...this class isnt going to be the only factor in their GPA.
I have attended community colleges and universities and dropping the lowest grade or maybe giving 10 points in extra credit it pretty common with harder courses. My A&PI class it is very hard, my professor is a doctor and expects a lot from us. So we have had several people drop and only myself and two others are sitting on A's right now. I know that half of the class it barely passing with a low C. I will end up with an A in A&P I but it's because I studied my butt off for it (and I mean hours of studying) and not because I went to a Community College. And I know that the University I'm applying to nursing school at does not take the school where you took classes into consideration they just look at grades and your score on the HESI exam. Most nursing programs requires the HESI, NET, or something similar and this usually weeds out the people who were given a good grade opposed to those that really know the material.
My dog's name is Copper too, he is a basset hound. But to get on subject, I agree with you and feel it is not fair. Our professors, even for the pre-req classes say that open book exams cheat the student because the NCLEX is not open book. My school has had a few issues with students cheating the whole way through the program and getting straight A's; then they bombed the NCLEX.
To keep admissions competitive you need to see what people are really made of and I think allowing this ruins it. I would be angry if a cheater got a spot over a B student who really wanted to be a nurse and got turned down for the program because they were average. Just my thoughts on it, the military taught me to be a team player and worry about everyone else. If we ignore problems we create bigger problems.
How do people cheat their way through school and get away with it?
As far as take home test go.. if the questions are done right, you can learn a hell of a lot more than if you cram for a normal exam and forget everything the moment you leave the room.
Fair, maybe not, and yes many will compare/copy/colaborate.
However what it comes down to with each and every class is did YOU learn it and can you apply it. Yes that may bump them up up to an A, keep them in range that they will be competing with you to get into nursing school. But sooner or later it will matter that you KNOW the information. If they do not know the information because they could slide through without truely learning it, they will be the one that sufferes in A&P 2, and later in nursing school if they make it that far. And from what I have heard, a lot of A&P knowledge caries through all the way through to being on the NCLEX......and there is no cheating, talking someone into making it easier on that one. And at that point, if you KNOW the info and THEY dont, they are the ones that have wasted their time, money and energy.
Yes i know at this point you are just worrying about getting into nursing school and for that they are your compatition and it might give them A when they would have gotten a B, or a B when they would have gotten a C, and maybe given them a bit more weight to compete with, but just worry about you, and doing your best...at the end of the day that is all you have control over.
Try not to look at it as you competing with them......it just you and the admition commitee.....you need to prove to them when they look at your application that they want YOU as a Nursing student. Realize anyone with any sense looking at your information will KNOW just as well as you do that a C at whatever school you took it at is good, and if you could get a C there, you definitly would have gotten at least a high B if not an A at a community college......that C probably wont hurt you like you seem to be afraid it will. Have strong references. Have a strong essay if your application requires one. Remeber your grades are only part of the picture.
"As far as take home test go.. if the questions are done right, you can learn a hell of a lot more than if you cram for a normal exam and forget everything the moment you leave the room. "
I have a Bachelors that was done mostly online at DeVry and now I go to traditional classes. I can say that I have learned way more in the traditional setting versus being at home "book dependent" for exams. So I would definitely disagree with you on that.
Not sure how they cheated through the whole program but I do know that most people in my school find it easy to cheat since all our exams are web based and they are able to open up extra windows and access things like Google. As with anything, if you want to do it you will find a way. When they got to the NCLEX the director said they scored the lowest scores ever recorded at out school on exam and that there was a group of 4 people involved.
I don't disagree that you get a lot more out of an in person class than an online class. I've taken many online and rarely get a lot out of them. My online tests have always been timed and multiple choice, just like an in person class. Sure, they are open book open notes.. but you can't spend the time looking up and learning the information. I believe a set of well prepared questions where you really need to learn the information to be able to answer (and research it for the correct answer) is a very effective took for teaching. But that is just me.
Try not to look at it as you competing with them......it just you and the admition commitee.....you need to prove to them when they look at your application that they want YOU as a Nursing student. Realize anyone with any sense looking at your information will KNOW just as well as you do that a C at whatever school you took it at is good, and if you could get a C there, you definitly would have gotten at least a high B if not an A at a community college......that C probably wont hurt you like you seem to be afraid it will. Have strong references. Have a strong essay if your application requires one. Remeber your grades are only part of the picture.
At my school grades ARE all that admissions looks at. And this is the only school I'm applying to. That's why I feel it's so important that the tests are an accurate reflection of each student's efforts and abilities. I don't want to bring other people down, but I don't think it's fair that people who would normally get lower marks will have a chance at an easy A on a take home exam.
I actually talked to my professor and she seems to agree with me that giving an exam that's only 64 multiple choice questions as a take home isn't quite fair. She says she is going to think it over and will let our class know what she decides soon. I believe that she's going to allow us to bring in a "cheat sheet" of information, but to write the exam in class.
I'm so happy I talked my professor about this! I could tell that the students in our class were putting pressure on her to make the exam take home, and I think she just caved. I think more people should speak up if they don't feel that's somethings right rather than just letting it go.
OMG! right,who complains about a take home exam...NOT I!!!....i work my butt off as well..a break is a break....stop complaining,
I haven't found the class to be all that hard. I do put in effort, but the work isn't terribly overwhelming. I felt that a take home multiple choice exam would be ridiculously easy and wouldn't be fair to students who are expecting more from this class and want to be challenged. When this class is over, I want to feel like I earned a high grade, not that it was just given to me.
Anoetos, BSN, RN
738 Posts
Don't worry about it, but at the same time, don't let the weakness of your colleagues or even your professor alter the way you study or prepare. As has been mentioned, a good grade in A&P is not the only criterion for getting into NS.
Remember also that the NCLEX is not a take home or group test, those who are prepared and who have done the work are the ones who will pass it and that is, at the moment, the only criterion worth worrying about (after getting into the school in the first place, of course). A good nursing school has a way of weeding out the lazies I think.