Today in my A&P1 class the students managed to convince our professor that our last exam of the semester should be a take home exam! My professor said that she wont change the format, so it will still be multiple choice and true/false questions. I feel like this will make it so easy for people to just compare answers and cheat and be able to get an easy A without studying or coming to class.
The crazy thing is that it was going to be a regular in class exam, but my teacher is a bit of a push-over and the class actually convinced her to make it take home. I feel like this is unfair for students like myself, who put in effort and get excellent grades on our own.
My biggest problem with this is that the nursing program at our school only looks at our first semster marks for addmissions. (They wont have semester 2 marks in on time). So if it's so easy to get an A in A&P1, there is nothing to distinguish the students by, and I'm worried students might be admitted by lottery! Plus making the class so easy is not a good way to prepare student for nursing school.
Should I tell my professor that I don't think this is fair? I was thinking of suggesting that we have an "open book" exam as a compromise, since the students seem to think that the regular exams are sooo hard. At least that way people can't cheat off each other. Or am I being really obnoxious and should I just let this go?
Grades don't mean everything .. It is my opinion that you shouldn't worry, grades are not everything.
The reality is, sometimes this is ALL that matters before an admissions committee. Some schools just look at grades and don't request recommendations, entrance exams, or even essays. Do I think it is fair? No, of course not. Your grades in this case are your only chance to speak to the admissions people. So if one is so inclined to attend such a school, it's best to make sure one's grades are stellar. If one's grades are not so stellar, it probably behooves one to apply to a school where the whole package can be considered.
i'm not going to even read everyone answers.....my answer is HELL NO!!! i've been studying and decided to take some classes online and that damn classes even do there quizzes online. no other class do that i'm ****** off. school hasn't even started i got my hands on an outline i researched and study everything. and now i want even be properly tested on my knowledge. i'm afraid i'm going to do so well they will think i'm cheating
I don't think your professor did anything wrong or unfair in giving a take-home test for the last exam of your class. This is ONE test. It's not like the entire course was a free A. The students who were failing are not going to benefit much from one A on a test (assuming they get it), so I don't understand why ppl would be annoyed that students who were failing might now pass - getting a D instead of an F isn't something to rejoice about. If you have an A in the class, be happy about it and don't worry about other people's grades.
I must say I skipped over this post for days and finally decided to read it, I'm glad I did it is truly entertaining. Personally It's not entirely fair, but one test won' really count for anything. I wouldn't go to the professor because at the end of the day I know my material and I mind my own buisness. Im a student who studies hard and i got all A's and B's I'm on the honor society also, hopefully that'll look good on my nursing app. Anyway I would probbly just roll with the punches as long as my grade is made. And I agree with whoever said take home test helps you learn, well me at least everyone learns different.
Artificially inflating grades is an injustice to the students.
I fully agree that many students may not be natural test takers. However, colleges have ways of helping them that does not include randomly increasing people's grades. If you have a true problem with test taking, go see your physicial or the student services folks (whatever they are called) at your school. Accomodations can and are made all the time. Untimed tests, oral exams, test readers, test scribes, quiet places for test taking and many other things are done routinely for people with actual test taking problems to help their work reflect their knowledge.
Who mentioned anything about randomly increasing grades? It's not like the teacher is saying, 'you know what, you should get an A even though you're giving me C work!' I don't know about your school, but at mine accommodations are only made for people with current (as in within a year) diagnosed mental and learning disabilities. Just because somebody learns differently or isn't a good 'cram exam' test taker doesn't mean they have a learning disability and therefor wouldn't qualify them for special accommodations.
In addition, professors very often include research papers, homework, group work, projects and other means of evaluating knowledge. These items are included in the overall points alloted for courses and can help raise the grade of a person who does not test well without artificially inflating grades for one person or even a whole class. These are ways to help without artificially inflating grades.
Again with this artificially inflating grades thing.. But you're correct, these are good ways for students who don't fit into the cram exam test taking bubble to shine. Unfortunately, a lot of teachers don't offer ANY of these things as part of their curriculum. I've noticed this especially with science classes. All my science classes have based grades solely on exam grades.. although my Geology teacher did have a couple extra credit opportunities.
Inflating grades in pre-reqs is really not good for the students. Take a look at the nursing student forums. Nursing schools (at least any I know of) do not allow for curves, extra credit or even rounding grades. In addition, most have a much higher standard for a passing grade. My nursing school requires a minimum of a 76 to pass a class and a 93 is the minimum A. If you receive a 75.9, you fail. There is no rounding to a 76. A 92.9 is a B, not an A. Students who are artificially passed through pre-reqs often find themselves in trouble in nursing school. It is a disservice to put them into that position. 76 is fairly common as a minimum passing grade. But, I've seen required minimums of 80 and more.
I guess it depends on what one might consider 'inflating' a grade. Different teachers have different ways of doing things.. I've never had one which I felt actually inflated grades above what a student actually worked for
Dropping the lowest grade because stuff happens doesn't make any sense to me. These science classes are not speech or comparative religion - they are necessary for the nursing program. Students need to learn the material. Dropping a grade that then gives them the impression that they didn't need that section of material. If they didn't learn XYZ system in A&P, nursing school is going to be more difficult.
If the student isn't learning the material dropping 1 grade isn't going to give them a huge advantage. Further- if the class has a comprehensive final- the content needs to be known or the final grade is going to suffer.
If you understand the material, but cannot spit it back out in a classroom test situation, get help -- help from your school, help from your physician, etc.
Again- not everyone tests well but may very well be able to spit the concepts out orally. Unfortunately- a lot of these students won't qualify for the accommodation of oral exams. ...You know... that whole disability documentation thing...
But, don't dumb down the classes in order to inflate grades. Unfortunately, a lot of those students will not make it through nursing school.
I've yet to have a 'dumbed down' nursing prerequisite and haven't talked to anyone who has. AND it's my opinion that nursing school isn't just for the super smart, retain every little piece of information, have to make 98 or better in every class person. I think "B" students can do just fine.. BUT- I'm not in nursing school yet so take my opinion for what it is worth.
So my teacher ended up deciding to give the exam as a take home after all. However, now she is only giving us 2 days to write the exam instead of 13. She admitted that she wasn't thinking clearly before and that 13 days for a take home exam is ridiculous. She's not changing the format of the exam -so it will be 64 multiple choice questions that was meant to be written in an hour long class.
I still feel like anyone who wants an A on the exam will be able to get one now. All they have to do is flip through the lecture notes or textbook to find the answers. But at least having fewer days to write the exam might decrease the chances that students will talk to each other about exam questions or write the exams in groups.
I think that this type of take home exam does not help students learn at all. Now no one cares about learning the material, because they can just look up the answers while they write the exam. I don't understand why teachers of pre-requisite classes try to make the classes so easy? It's not like nursing school is easy, and I don't think that there are take home exams, extra credit and dropping the lowest grade. I think that many students who are used to getting easy As in pre-requisite classes are in for a rude awakening once they get into nursing school.
I know nursing is the goal of all of us.. and anyone who is SERIOUS about going into nursing is going to bust their hump in these classes.
But these classes aren't JUST for nursing majors. And a lot of the students in them are first year college students who don't know how to study for college classes and will be changing majors 100x before they're done.
So my teacher ended up deciding to give the exam as a take home after all. However, now she is only giving us 2 days to write the exam instead of 13. She admitted that she wasn't thinking clearly before and that 13 days for a take home exam is ridiculous. She's not changing the format of the exam -so it will be 64 multiple choice questions that was meant to be written in an hour long class.
I still feel like anyone who wants an A on the exam will be able to get one now. All they have to do is flip through the lecture notes or textbook to find the answers. But at least having fewer days to write the exam might decrease the chances that students will talk to each other about exam questions or write the exams in groups.
I think that this type of take home exam does not help students learn at all. Now no one cares about learning the material, because they can just look up the answers while they write the exam. I don't understand why teachers of pre-requisite classes try to make the classes so easy? It's not like nursing school is easy, and I don't think that there are take home exams, extra credit and dropping the lowest grade. I think that many students who are used to getting easy As in pre-requisite classes are in for a rude awakening once they get into nursing school.
Good that the teacher lowered the time allowed. Hell, if it could take an hour in class, it should have been 1 day take home. I do agree the more i read other posts that one good grade on this test is not going to erase a poor performance for the rest of the semester. So if you have been an A student all semester, it will be a sure A for you. The cheaters will eventually get netted by the NCLEX and won't make it to the nursing floor. That is the hope anyway! But shame that the prereqs cannot be as rigorous as nursing school. If you can't hack it in prereq, you should not go on to nursing school.
I still feel like anyone who wants an A on the exam will be able to get one now. All they have to do is flip through the lecture notes or textbook to find the answers. But at least having fewer days to write the exam might decrease the chances that students will talk to each other about exam questions or write the exams in groups.
I think you might be overestimating other students' motivation! My school offers an accelerated chemistry class that combines 101 and 102 into one semester. It's designed for the health majors, which means that nearly everyone in the class is applying to nursing. Our admissions committee rank orders us on our GPA from A&P, chemistry and math only - no admission tests, no interviews/essays - grades only. Needless to say, the motivation to do well in this class should be very high!
Our grade in the class is based on 3 tests worth 200 points each. The average on the second test was rather low (60%) but instead of curving the test, our professor offered an extra credit assignment that he has an interest in us completing. It wasn't time consuming and as long as we answered all of the questions, we got full credit. It was due by end of day yesterday and as of noon, only 35 out of 100 students had completed it. My point is, even with "gimmes," a lot of students won't put forth the effort.
I understand why you're frustrated with the situation but all you can really worry about or control is doing YOUR best.
who mentioned anything about randomly increasing grades? it's not like the teacher is saying, 'you know what, you should get an a even though you're giving me c work!' i don't know about your school, but at mine accommodations are only made for people with current (as in within a year) diagnosed mental and learning disabilities. just because somebody learns differently or isn't a good 'cram exam' test taker doesn't mean they have a learning disability and therefor wouldn't qualify them for special accommodations.
in that case, they should get used to taking in classroom multiple choice exams. nursing school, and more importantly, the nclex is going to be all about timed multiple choice exam.s
again with this artificially inflating grades thing.. but you're correct, these are good ways for students who don't fit into the cram exam test taking bubble to shine. unfortunately, a lot of teachers don't offer any of these things as part of their curriculum. i've noticed this especially with science classes. all my science classes have based grades solely on exam grades.. although my geology teacher did have a couple extra credit opportunities.
i guess it depends on what one might consider 'inflating' a grade. different teachers have different ways of doing things.. i've never had one which i felt actually inflated grades above what a student actually worked for
i think that offering a test that was designed to be taking in an hour in a classroom setting as a take home exam leads to artificial results on that exam. sure, some people won't bother to search out the answers while they're at home. however, that opportunity exists for anyone wanting to take it. in class exams are generally easier than a take home exam due to the nature of the different type of testing.
if the student isn't learning the material dropping 1 grade isn't going to give them a huge advantage. further- if the class has a comprehensive final- the content needs to be known or the final grade is going to suffer.
dropping one grade could easily move someone from a c to a b or a b to an a. certainly if they are failing the class, it likely isn't going to help considerable. but, for those who are on the edge, it can make a big difference -essentially putting them into the same position as someone who has done well throughout the course.
again- not everyone tests well but may very well be able to spit the concepts out orally. unfortunately- a lot of these students won't qualify f bor the accommodation of oral exams. ...you know... that whole disability documentation thing...
i've yet to have a 'dumbed down' nursing prerequisite and haven't talked to anyone who has. and it's my opinion that nursing school isn't just for the super smart, retain every little piece of information, have to make 98 or better in every class person. i think "b" students can do just fine.. but- i'm not in nursing school yet so take my opinion for what it is worth.
absolutely b students can do just fine in nursing school. but, students who are used to being handed their education are going to have big problems. we had a young woman in class last quarter who was angry because we had an exam in two days, but the instructor had not mentioned the exam nor done any sort of review for it. the date and what material were to be covered were in the syllabus, but she didn't think it was fair to give us a test because no one had given her a study guide or reminded her about it. that class only had 160 total points available for the term (over 3 exams - exam 2 and 3 were both comprehensive). in order to get an a, you could only miss 11 points.
i'm not trying to be contrary here. i just am trying to point out that handing students their education in these pre-reqs does not prepare them for what lies ahead. students who wind up receiving high enough grades to get into nursing school because their professors gave all sorts of ways to make up points may be unprepared for what is to come.
But you're correct, these are good ways for students who don't fit into the cram exam test taking bubble to shine. Unfortunately, a lot of teachers don't offer ANY of these things as part of their curriculum. I've noticed this especially with science classes. All my science classes have based grades solely on exam grades.. although my Geology teacher did have a couple extra credit opportunities. 
PacoUSA, BSN, RN
3,450 Posts
The reality is, sometimes this is ALL that matters before an admissions committee. Some schools just look at grades and don't request recommendations, entrance exams, or even essays. Do I think it is fair? No, of course not. Your grades in this case are your only chance to speak to the admissions people. So if one is so inclined to attend such a school, it's best to make sure one's grades are stellar. If one's grades are not so stellar, it probably behooves one to apply to a school where the whole package can be considered.