Hi everyone. I am currently a second semester nursing student and this morning I attended a meeting with the dean of our nursing program where I was informed that I had committed a HIPAA violation and was consequently placed on academic probation for the remainder of my program. There were four people involved in the situation, and all of us were placed on probation. I was not aware that what I did constituted a violation and I have the opportunity to challenge this decision so I wanted to get the opinion of others to help me decide what to do.
The story is long so I'll only explain my role in the situation.
A friend in my study group was at her clinical site. She sent a text to our study group asking what we would do if another student in our clinical group was saying that they were very overwhelmed and had thoughts of committing suicide. She did not give any identifying information other than the fact that this person was in her clinical group. I advised her as to what I thought she should do. She later responded that she and another student approached their clinical instructor and the clinical instructor took the student that was struggling to the ER and they had the potential to be placed on an involuntary 72 hour hold. At no time was this person's identity disclosed and I did not know who we were talking about.
On a different day, I was commiserating with another student about how hard school is with kids and work and I said that I had heard that a student in *my friend's name*'s clinical group had expressed that they were overwhelmed and threatening to kill themselves. We basically just talked about how bad we felt that someone in our class was feeling that way and that if we knew who it was we would do our best to support them.
Long story short, that was the extent of my involvement. It got back to our professors that this was being discussed and they were extremely unhappy which is why we had to attend that meeting today. So to those of you that are much more familiar with HIPAA laws, does this sound like I violated it to you? Thanks for any input you can offer.
Just curious was the ER a part of the clinical site that you were attending? Maybe I missed it somewhere else in the thread but I don't remember reading if the clinical site was also the same hospital as the ER? It doesn't sound like your role was a problem but do you know if any of the other students could have participated in some form of a violation? Because you don't know exactly how it got back to the administration, right?
Also curious if the student who was hospitalized is reacting badly to the situation and has initiated this in some way?
I will be starting nursing school in the Fall so I am extremely curious about this.
The ER that the student was brought to was in the hospital that they were doing their clinicals.
I do know how the story got back to administration, but it is so confusing and convoluted that it would be hard to explain.
I also know that the "victim" has no hard feelings about the situation and has made it very clear that he feels it was all a big misunderstanding. He has continued to come to my friend for support and it doesn't seem that this situation has affected his trust in her at all.
I realize I may be the dissenting opinion here, but I would be very careful in this particular situation. While I don't agree with the schools methods, there reasoning may be sound.
HIPPA protects patients. Once this student became a patient, and a public discussion occurred about him/her becoming a patient, HIPPA may come into play. Even though you did not identify this person by name, the fact that so many identifiable items were discussed (her school, class, study group) make him/her fairly easily identifiable. As nursing students who work in the clinical setting where this person may have been treated, you could be on a slippery slope.
I'll give and example. Say a celebrity was admitted to your facility. You are not treating the individual but you hear some information about their treatment. A reporter finds out that the certain celebrity is in the facility and questions you. Anything you say about that person, even without clear identifiers, even in the hypothetical, may be deemed as a HIPPA violation.
I am not saying you were right or wrong here, I'm just saying to be careful. And if you choose to bring legal action against the school, you better be damn sure you can defend your position.
Best of luck.
Michael Isaacs BSN RN CEN CPEN - Sent from my iPhone using allnurses
Hi there! I understand exactly what you're saying and I agree with you. My issue with the situation is that my friend initially communicated with me only regarding her concern for this student and things that he had told her and several others. The information that he was having suicidal ideations did not come from a confidential nurse/client relationship. After that, when the clinical instructor escorted this student to the ER, my friend only knew he had been escorted there, not whether or not he had been admitted. She only found out about the outcome of the visit when the student called her after being released from the ER to let her know that he was doing okay. That is when she followed up with us to let us know that he was released and seemed to be fine
I can see why this is a tricky situation. I just feel that because all of the information that was shared came from a friend/friend relationship, it does not qualify as protected health information.
If the appeal doesn't go my way I will definitely be consulting with a group of lawyers that I've found that deals almost exclusively with nursing related law. There is no way I would try to bring legal action unless I felt 100% confident that I was not in the wrong.
I know I am late to this, however, most of the time you, as a student, have to pay for malpractice insurance to cover you in a clinical site. I would find out who is covering you, and call them so that they are in the loop.
And I hate to say it, but no phones/messages in clinicals. Your phones run off of the hospital's wifi. They are not confidential. Any and all messages you send and receive leave a footprint. So does the fact that you received and read said message. When the message came to you that the person was being brought to the ER, it could be considered some sort of privacy violation. When you took that private information, no matter how well intended, and had discussion with another student about it, it is a student conduct issue. And classically, clinicals have and do kick people off of their clinical rotations for any sort of sense of misconduct. And for all you know, the classmate you shared this with went directly to the clinical instructor and spilled it.
Once it is out of your mouth, you have no control over how it is repeated, or where it goes. Well intended, supportive or not.
I would turn off your phone before you enter clinicals. I would be clear with the study group that personal/confidential information is not longer to be shared by text message. That the only messages that you would like to receive is if the study group is cancelled, or venue has changed. And others should follow suit. Otherwise, you will have to take your number off of the message tree. You education and nursing character is too important, as should every one else's should be.
Schools are weird, they can make up all sorts of "rules" and expectations. But what they may have is proof. In that all this was done in writing (texting) on a shared wifi that belongs to the facility, and at the clinical site, and discussions were had by you to someone who repeated it. As what usually happens with gossip. And even though you did it out of a good place, in the end, it was gossip.
Specializes in Nurse Leader specializing in Labor & Delivery.
And I hate to say it, but no phones/messages in clinicals. Your phones run off of the hospital's wifi. They are not confidential. Any and all messages you send and receive leave a footprint. So does the fact that you received and read said message. .
Only if you use the facility's wifi. When I'm at work, I turn wifi off and use my phone's 4g instead, unless I'm just using it for streaming music at my desk.
I know I am late to this, however, most of the time you, as a student, have to pay for malpractice insurance to cover you in a clinical site. I would find out who is covering you, and call them so that they are in the loop.
And I hate to say it, but no phones/messages in clinicals. Your phones run off of the hospital's wifi. They are not confidential. Any and all messages you send and receive leave a footprint. So does the fact that you received and read said message. When the message came to you that the person was being brought to the ER, it could be considered some sort of privacy violation. When you took that private information, no matter how well intended, and had discussion with another student about it, it is a student conduct issue. And classically, clinicals have and do kick people off of their clinical rotations for any sort of sense of misconduct. And for all you know, the classmate you shared this with went directly to the clinical instructor and spilled it.
Once it is out of your mouth, you have no control over how it is repeated, or where it goes. Well intended, supportive or not.
I would turn off your phone before you enter clinicals. I would be clear with the study group that personal/confidential information is not longer to be shared by text message. That the only messages that you would like to receive is if the study group is cancelled, or venue has changed. And others should follow suit. Otherwise, you will have to take your number off of the message tree. You education and nursing character is too important, as should every one else's should be.
Schools are weird, they can make up all sorts of "rules" and expectations. But what they may have is proof. In that all this was done in writing (texting) on a shared wifi that belongs to the facility, and at the clinical site, and discussions were had by you to someone who repeated it. As what usually happens with gossip. And even though you did it out of a good place, in the end, it was gossip.
Going forward, mindful and careful.
Our school has never mentioned anything to us about malpractice insurance so it's interesting that you mention that. I'll have to ask my instructor at clinicals tomorrow how that works.
With regard to the rest of your post, you bring up many good points and have given me a lot to think about. I can assure you that this has been a huge learning experience for me and I put a lot more thought and consideration into any conversations that I have regarding other people's health.
With regard to the rest of your post, you bring up many good points and have given me a lot to think about. I can assure you that this has been a huge learning experience for me and I put a lot more thought and consideration into any conversations that I have regarding other people's health.
Thank you for your advice.
How refreshing to have some one consider and accept the opinions presented here! Hopefully this will all blow over soon with no negative consequences.
This will be the best lesson you ever learned in school! I'm sorry it was so painful, and your dean needs to attend a few nursing courses herself. She clearly doesn't get it. HIPAA applies to patients, not students. FERPA is the regulation that covers student privacy. In any case, I agree with others that you need an attorney. I'm not sure if NSO.com covers student but I would contact them for the future.
Our school has never mentioned anything to us about malpractice insurance so it's interesting that you mention that. I'll have to ask my instructor at clinicals tomorrow how that works.
With regard to the rest of your post, you bring up many good points and have given me a lot to think about. I can assure you that this has been a huge learning experience for me and I put a lot more thought and consideration into any conversations that I have regarding other people's health.
Thank you for your advice.
No malpractice insurance was required? That's odd. We had to purchase our own liability before starting the semester.
Our school has never mentioned anything to us about malpractice insurance so it's interesting that you mention that. I'll have to ask my instructor at clinicals tomorrow how that
It depends on the program I guess. I was accepted into a program at a community college where I would have had to get my own insurance prior to clinical.
I transferred to a university and am not required to provide my own insurance. The stipulation is that the professor has to be on the floor with us if we are providing any kind of care.
Specializes in Complex pedi to LTC/SA & now a manager.
It depends on the program I guess. I was accepted into a program at a community college where I would have had to get my own insurance prior to clinical.
I transferred to a university and am not required to provide my own insurance. The stipulation is that the professor has to be on the floor with us if we are providing any kind of care.
You can still get your own coverage for less than $50 from NSO or Marsh/ProLiability for $1million/$6million coverage.
The stipulation is that the professor has to be on the floor with us if we are providing any kind of care.
This is the same stipulation we have. Our instructor has to be with us when administering meds, injections, inserting catheters, basically anything besides basic care.
RNsRWe: I can see why you would suggest it. But I would be too worried for the OP. Even on an anonymous forum, it could be twisted against the OP, used against the OP. I do wonder about the administration, I would think that they would just have said "no more gossip, etc" Or even said to them, I know you are concerned about so and so, but let's respect so and so's privacy.
Good Luck Anonymous6578
Agreed. It's just such a ridiculous situation in the first place! If Administration wants to cite a HIPAA violation as a reason to oust a student(s), then there ought to have BEEN a HIPAA violation.
If they want to say "no one can talk about anyone for any reason in any setting....forever", well then we'd KNOW they were insane and back away slowly.
Anonymous6578
17 Posts
The ER that the student was brought to was in the hospital that they were doing their clinicals.
I do know how the story got back to administration, but it is so confusing and convoluted that it would be hard to explain.
I also know that the "victim" has no hard feelings about the situation and has made it very clear that he feels it was all a big misunderstanding. He has continued to come to my friend for support and it doesn't seem that this situation has affected his trust in her at all.