Is this actually a HIPAA violation?

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Hi everyone. I am currently a second semester nursing student and this morning I attended a meeting with the dean of our nursing program where I was informed that I had committed a HIPAA violation and was consequently placed on academic probation for the remainder of my program. There were four people involved in the situation, and all of us were placed on probation. I was not aware that what I did constituted a violation and I have the opportunity to challenge this decision so I wanted to get the opinion of others to help me decide what to do.

The story is long so I'll only explain my role in the situation.

A friend in my study group was at her clinical site. She sent a text to our study group asking what we would do if another student in our clinical group was saying that they were very overwhelmed and had thoughts of committing suicide. She did not give any identifying information other than the fact that this person was in her clinical group. I advised her as to what I thought she should do. She later responded that she and another student approached their clinical instructor and the clinical instructor took the student that was struggling to the ER and they had the potential to be placed on an involuntary 72 hour hold. At no time was this person's identity disclosed and I did not know who we were talking about.

On a different day, I was commiserating with another student about how hard school is with kids and work and I said that I had heard that a student in *my friend's name*'s clinical group had expressed that they were overwhelmed and threatening to kill themselves. We basically just talked about how bad we felt that someone in our class was feeling that way and that if we knew who it was we would do our best to support them.

Long story short, that was the extent of my involvement. It got back to our professors that this was being discussed and they were extremely unhappy which is why we had to attend that meeting today. So to those of you that are much more familiar with HIPAA laws, does this sound like I violated it to you? Thanks for any input you can offer.

Another update. I met with a different dean today to discuss my appeal. She says that as of right now, the probation stands, but they are waiting for more information. Apparently they have consulted one of the local hospital systems where we do some of our clinicals, and they agree that it was a violation. She also told me that the college's lawyers are looking at the case as well to help determine an appropriate outcome.

I tried to stress to her that there were four individuals involved, and each of our roles should be assessed separately. I've told this forum exactly what my role was in this situation and I still don't see how they can so easily say it was a violation. It's very frustrating.

Anyway, she said I will likely have an answer sometime next week. Thanks again for your support and advice.

Specializes in Management, Med/Surg, Clinical Trainer.

She later responded that she and another student approached their clinical instructor and the clinical instructor took the student that was struggling to the ER and they had the potential to be placed on an involuntary 72 hour hold. At no time was this person's identity disclosed and I did not know who we were talking about.

On a different day, I was commiserating with another student about how hard school is with kids and work and I said that I had heard that a student in *my friend's name*'s clinical group had expressed that they were overwhelmed and threatening to kill themselves. We basically just talked about how bad we felt that someone in our class was feeling that way and that if we knew who it was we would do our best to support them.

I am going to be odd man out and say HIPAA was violated. Yes this person was a fellow student, however, once the prof took her to the ER she was a PATIENT. And once she became a patient she was afforded all the rights from HIPAA.

AND with that said she was put on a psych hold, which gets additional protection for HIPAA.

Second, the OP said that she chatted about the incident giving "my friend's names" Clinical group. In nursing school where we all are expected to be at class every day how hard would it be to find out that someone was missing for 72 hours. This was more than enough identifying data to determine who the missing student was.....

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I am going to be odd man out and say HIPAA was violated. Yes this person was a fellow student, however, once the prof took her to the ER she was a PATIENT. And once she became a patient she was afforded all the rights from HIPAA.

AND with that said she was put on a psych hold, which gets additional protection for HIPAA.

Second, the OP said that she chatted about the incident giving "my friend's names" Clinical group. In nursing school where we all are expected to be at class every day how hard would it be to find out that someone was missing for 72 hours. This was more than enough identifying data to determine who the missing student was.....

Hi there! Thanks for your input but you have a couple points of the story incorrect. The student was never placed on a hold. They went to the ER, were evaluated, and released. Therefore no one would have ever noticed a person was missing. Also, all my friend initially said was that the person was escorted to the ER by her instructor. Later, after the student was released, he called her to let her know what happened, and she let the rest of us know that it turned out to be nothing.

I probably didn't clarify this until later in the thread but I thought you might be interested in the rest of the details in case it sways your opinion. Either way, I appreciate your perspective.

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Hi there! Thanks for your input but you have a couple points of the story incorrect. The student was never placed on a hold. They went to the ER, were evaluated, and released. Therefore no one would have ever noticed a person was missing. Also, all my friend initially said was that the person was escorted to the ER by her instructor. Later, after the student was released, he called her to let her know what happened, and she let the rest of us know that it turned out to be nothing.

I probably didn't clarify this until later in the thread but I thought you might be interested in the rest of the details in case it sways your opinion. Either way, I appreciate your perspective.

So basically, at the end of all this the student/patient was openly communicating with all of you via the one girl he told originally. I think that part of the story makes all the difference in this case. The "patient" essentially gave permission to her to let everyone know he was ok, right?

If he was giving the information out on his own it was not a violation. The school could've used it as a teaching moment and warned you all that it was a tricky case, but to take it as far as they did was not appropriate.

I mean, maybe the one girl who spoke to him first shouldn't have texted you in the first place (we don't know if he asked her not to tell anyone) but the rest of you are in no way violating privacy laws in most people's opinion.

I am going to be odd man out and say HIPAA was violated. Yes this person was a fellow student, however, once the prof took her to the ER she was a PATIENT. And once she became a patient she was afforded all the rights from HIPAA.

AND with that said she was put on a psych hold, which gets additional protection for HIPAA.

Second, the OP said that she chatted about the incident giving "my friend's names" Clinical group. In nursing school where we all are expected to be at class every day how hard would it be to find out that someone was missing for 72 hours. This was more than enough identifying data to determine who the missing student was.....

I think most of us were basing our opinion strictly on the OP's role in this, not every other student involved. The girl that originally texted the OP/study group may be questionable but as far as the OP's role it doesn't seem like she had much control over the situation. I think the key to this is the patient involved willingly reached back out to them to let them know what happened. He didn't seem to want to make this a private matter.

Our school has never mentioned anything to us about malpractice insurance so it's interesting that you mention that. I'll have to ask my instructor at clinicals tomorrow how that works.

The way it works is that you contact NSO or any other nursing malpractice carrier (search AN for "" and you'll find several reputable companies recommended by many members), you contact one for an application, and you send in a check. That's it. You don't need any input from the school, and actually, judging by the way you describe them, I wouldn't even mention it to them. Just do it, and tell your friends. NSNA may also have ideas for carriers.

I think the key to this is the patient involved willingly reached back out to them to let them know what happened. He didn't seem to want to make this a private matter.

Just to clarify, even though I don't think it changes much, the student only reached out to contact my friend. I do not believe he knew that the rest of us knew, at that point.

Alright, another update. I just spoke to the dean on the phone and she said after speaking with the school's lawyers they have decided that there was a HIPAA violation and my probation is being upheld. No explanation. I'm actually pretty angry and have contacted the school's lawyer to see if she is willing to meet with me to explain how they came to that determination. I feel that I am entitled to that, at least. I provided evidence that showed that this was not a breach, and I think they need to give me an explanation that invalidates my evidence. I have a feeling the lawyer will not agree to meet with me and I'll have to consult a law firm that deals specifically with nursing issues. Of course I have no money to pay for it and I'll have to determine if it's even worth it in the end. If the cost of a lawyer is greater than what I would have to repay for the cancelled trip to the nursing conference, I don't know if it would make sense to pursue it. I just feel that this is wrong and I want to fight it on principle. Ugh.

Alright, another update. I just spoke to the dean on the phone and she said after speaking with the school's lawyers they have decided that there was a HIPAA violation and my probation is being upheld. No explanation. I'm actually pretty angry and have contacted the school's lawyer to see if she is willing to meet with me to explain how they came to that determination. I feel that I am entitled to that, at least. I provided evidence that showed that this was not a breach, and I think they need to give me an explanation that invalidates my evidence. I have a feeling the lawyer will not agree to meet with me and I'll have to consult a law firm that deals specifically with nursing issues. Of course I have no money to pay for it and I'll have to determine if it's even worth it in the end. If the cost of a lawyer is greater than what I would have to repay for the cancelled trip to the nursing conference, I don't know if it would make sense to pursue it. I just feel that this is wrong and I want to fight it on principle. Ugh.

I'm sorry, I can't even imagine what you are feeling right now. So what does this mean exactly in terms of how it hurts your Nursing career? If you are on probation can you still complete the program? Other than the trip what else can you be held back from?

Also, I really hope you find a way to get proper legal advice before this gets any worse. Maybe it's worth calling around to see what feedback you receive from lawyers who specialize in this before meeting with the school lawyer alone.

Good luck!

It will not affect me in any way other than if I make one more mistake throughout the program, I will probably be kicked out. It will not be something that is visible by future employers or anything like that. The cost of paying back the school for the trip was one of my main reasons for appealing this. Aside from the fact that I think this was an inappropriate punishment and the situation was handled extremely poorly, which is my other reason. I'm considering just dropping the matter, but I'm also stubborn and don't like feeling as though I've been wronged.

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